Is Polarity the Missing Piece in Your Relationship? featuring Ashley Mariani, The Rogue Therapist

In this episode, we Ashley and I dive into the art of cultivating polarity in relationships -- the dynamic interplay between the masculine and feminine energies that creates deep attraction and lasting connection.  Whether your relationship is feeling stagnant, disconnected, or simply in need of a spark, we explore how restoring polarity can actually bring about profound healing and renewal.  We discuss the importance of embracing your authentic essence  - whether divine masculine or feminine - and how doing so not only strengthens your relationship but also supports your personal growth.  

Ashley Mariani, MSW, RSW is a couples therapist, nervous system educator, and the founder of The Rogue Therapist and Mind Online Therapy. She’s also an ordained metaphysical Reverend and founder of Heart and Hearth Ministry. Known for her unapologetic, grounded approach to intimacy, polarity, and healing after birth trauma, Ashley helps women and men rebuild trust, deepen connection, and live in alignment, with zero apologies.”

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Instagram: @therogue.therapist

Website: MindOnline.ca

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 1:20

Welcome back to today's episode of Unapologetic Living. I'm Elizabeth Elliott. I am your hostess, and I am thrilled to have Ashley Mariani. Is that correct? Mariani. Yep. Mariani. Thank you. Welcome. Thank you and welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me. So today's guest is an ordained reverend, registered social worker, and the unapologetic voice behind the Rogue Therapist. Ashley is a couples, therapist, sex, and intimacy educator, and a fierce advocate for birth rights and emotional sovereignty. Her work is rooted in the belief that our nervous systems hold the key to intimacy, desire, and connection, and that healing doesn't come from performance, but from presence. She teaches couples how to honor polarity, navigate parenthood without losing intimacy, and recover from the impact of medicalized birth trauma. She's also a breathwork and cold plunge facilitator, a public speaker, and a mentor to both therapists and birth workers. Ashley brings a blend of clinical training, spiritual depth and real world grit to everything she does. And she's here to talk about reclaiming wholeness in our bodies, our relationships and the way we show up in the world. That was a mouthful. Yeah. And those are all the reasons that I know Instagram, the algorithm put you in my feed and I found you. I love

SPEAKER_01: 2:49

that. See, sometimes it works. Sometimes we hate the algorithm. Sometimes it gives us the right people.

SPEAKER_00: 2:55

Yeah. And, and so I'd love, first of all, in the past year, I've been digging a little bit more into polarity. So, you know, I mean, there are so many different angles that I would, could potentially take the conversation. I do know that relationships for many, I haven't done a lot on relationships.

SPEAKER_01: 3:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 3:23

And I think it would be great to, you know, the importance of, and I don't know, the cultivating polarity sense. I think we don't even realize a loss of polarity because it's not something that we've really been, I hate to use the word educated on,

SPEAKER_01: 3:48

Well, we've kind of been told to unlearn it, really. We are in this world where we push equality, equality, equality, equality. And I have three children. So I use this example all the time when it comes to equality versus equity. All of my children have different needs, different likes, different dislikes. If I go with the status quo and say, we are going to move forward with equality. Everybody, a great example this morning, everybody gets a chocolate cake pop from Starbucks. Everybody gets chocolate. Two of the three children are losing their mind because they want a different color cake pop. And if my goal is to offer sameness, is to offer equality, Everybody a chance to have a treat and enjoy themselves. I'm missing the mark on two out of three kids. So if I come at it from the stance of equity instead and say, okay, if my goal is so that everybody this morning feels like they get a treat, they think it's a special morning. What do you need? What do you need? Is it a cake pop? Is it a croissant? Is it a special little drink? What's going to make your morning special? And they'll tell me. And then that way they're not saying, well, I didn't get what I wanted. You got your item that made you feel like the morning was special and it doesn't have to be like anybody else's. So when we think about polarity, I want people to consider this concept of like, it's not about treating everyone the same. It's about figuring out which needs are unique to individuals, to every couple, and then making that work. And the hard part is that so many women are in what polarity terminology, which I would like to reinvent and I'll figure something out in my own language at some point. So many women are in their masculine, they're doing, they're planning, they're pushing, they're organizing. And that's not inherently bad because we all have this nice yin yang of masculine feminine energy within us that all serves a purpose. But what happens in relationships is that can flatten attraction because now we have sameness instead of that cliche sentence or statement of opposites attract. Yeah, opposites do attract. They're very complimentary. So polarity needs one partner anchored in presence and the other partner willing to surrender. And I don't care what the context of the couple is. I don't care if it's a same-sex couple. Polarity works in same-sex relationships. Polarity works in heterosexual relationships. I can say from the work that I've done with mostly heterosexual couples, most women want to learn how to soften. They're so tired of making decisions. They have so much decision fatigue. They just want to hear the sentence from their partner. I got it. Don't worry. I got your back. I'm handling it. I have already handled it. That just brings us like, deep exhale to their nervous system that they don't have to got it all the time. I don't know if that answers your question.

SPEAKER_00: 7:23

Well, it definitely answers my question. And, and, you know, having a previous relationship, I can see where, you know, I would never have thought about it through that lens before, you know, this loss of polarity, feeling so exhausted, feeling like the only one driving the bus.

SPEAKER_01: 7:44

Making the decisions, calling the shots. Yeah. I think that's rooted in fear too. I think, and I can speak to this from the lens of working with a lot of men and they're actually terrified to lead, to initiate. They are terrified to own any kind of healthy masculinity because we've used the term toxic masculinity so broadly that that they don't know there's such a thing as healthy masculinity. And so they're just trying to detach from anything masculine related, which we, we, that is amazing. We love that. If women are made up of masculine, feminine energy, men are made up of masculine and feminine energy that it's a part of us. It's, it's inherent to our own inner workings and our relationships and our working. So I think a lot of men have stated in my experience that, or I know a lot of men have stated in my experience, that they're really just terrified to not let their partner lead. But their partner's over here in this complexed cognitive state saying, I know I'm supposed to want to lead. I'm supposed to want to have all this power. I'm supposed to want to make all these decisions. But my heart can't take it anymore. My nervous system can't take it anymore. I just want someone to tell me what to do.

SPEAKER_00: 9:13

And do you believe that's just due to the societal programming? I mean, of course, as you mentioned, even just the word toxic masculinity, right? There are a lot of men who shy away from the essence of their inner, what's innate altogether, right? So they aren't lumped, I guess, in that camp. Yet on the same, you know, token, we have the message for women, right? This desire for power, you can do it. You're, you know, who needs a man?

SPEAKER_01: 9:57

Totally, totally. And I'm a very, critical thinker, right? I don't buy in to just anything that's presented. I take information and I kind of dissect it and I pick apart what sits well with me and what doesn't sit well with me. And this rocks some boats, but I say, listen, the premise of the feminist movement is so beautiful, right? Women became people. Women had the right to vote. They had agency and autonomy over ourselves, our lives, we needed that more than anything. However, with every movement, there's always someone, an agency, a system, people in power that are snake oil salespeople, and they want to ride the coattails of anything good. So what came on the coattails of the feminist movement was this thought around, oh, These women want to be in the workforce. Beautiful. Now we have an extra person in the home to tax. We can tax them on the income that they're making. Let's keep enforcing women out in work. Let's tell them that they have the right to work, which they did. But let's also start sending the message that you can hustle. Hustle. You want to work like a man? Work like a man. You want to sleep when you're dead? Beautiful. Boss babe culture. Earn your money. Go, go, go. What that did was create an entire generation of women who found their self-worth was rooted in productivity only. Their hormones were totally crazy because they weren't getting adequate nutrition and sleep. They were moving their body like a man because that's what they were told to do. All the research on the human body is done on male data, collected data. And so women are thinking that they are rebelling against the patriarchy, the system when they go out and work 14, 16 hour days when they never get to see their family. When they bring home heavy paychecks that they have to make up for all of the rights that women lost many years ago, not that many years ago, but many years ago. And what that's done is cause them to dig their heels in to the concept of softening and dig their heels into the concept of surrendering to a man and dig their heels into this idea that they don't have to be like men. which is very sad to me.

SPEAKER_00: 15:31

Yeah, I agree. And I know the word surrender in and of itself sounds scary. And, you know, from a subconscious standpoint, when, you know, there is this initial attraction, right? Most people come together because there is that attraction. Maybe There is that seeming polarity. Do you find that it's lost over time? Or do you find that, you know, again, you've got that first year or two, right, of initial attraction. Everything's great. And then the wounds start. Bester. Bester. And they show up. And a lot of times these are, you know, from much earlier in our lifetime. And we're seeing them in our partners. What seems like not necessarily for the first time. And then I also think, you know, some of these wounds begin to show up when children are born. You know, I remember reading, I think it was Alice... Is it Miller? The gift. Oh, gosh. What was the drama of the gifted child? I think. I can't remember. It was when I lost a friend to suicide. And she spoke of, you know, certain things arising in a parent when a child gets closer to the age they experience their own personal wound.

UNKNOWN: 17:14

Mm hmm.

SPEAKER_01: 17:18

So I think, okay. So to break this up at the beginning of relationship, when we are working with a ton of biochemistry, we're talking about oxytocin. We're talking about tons of serotonin, endorphins, dopamine, the newness and, and newness excitement is with everything in our lives. Like how many times do you get an Amazon package at the door and you're like, amazing. And then suddenly you're like, oh yeah, that has had its day. And we see this with kids too, right? Kids will get a toy and they'll get excited about it. And then onto the next, onto the next, the newness. And so our relationship runs on these chemicals for a certain period of time. And polarity does exist at that time, but there's also impression management and people don't haven't grasped that concept of the polarity piece, right? When we think about what's happening in the newness of a relationship, oftentimes men are pursuing women. They're saying, hey, I want to take you out on a date. Let's go to Red Lobster. Let's go to Red Lobster. How about seven o'clock? And for a woman that leadership, that initiation is like, oh, wow, he's really taking the reins. That feels really nice. And then what happens is the programming kicks in where a woman's like, no, I want to make the decisions now, right? I'm too afraid that you are going to have too much power and too much control. And I worked in domestic violence for a huge chunk of my career. And so teaching the Duluth model and running a program for individuals charged with domestic related offenses, mostly men, there is this fear that if you allow a man to make too many decisions in your life, they are going to create a power and control dynamic. And so That is not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about a man making every decision for you. I'm talking about decisions being collaborative, but when it comes to lust and intimacy, having an opportunity to say, I don't, I I'm going to let you, I'm, I'm, I'm really as the woman I'm in charge because I'm now surrendering my power and control over to you to say, let me see what you do with it. And if I don't trust you with it, I take it back. That's fine. So really the one surrendering is the one that has the most power. The one softening is the one that has the most power. But if you don't know what got you to this place of chemistry and lust and desire and excitement of a new relationship, then you're not going to know how to get it back. You didn't leave any breadcrumbs. So you don't know your way back. And so once we can start naming it, then we can start replicating it. Then we can start introducing the ingredients all over again. And then we say, oh yeah, this tastes very familiar. And then we bring in the inner child stuff because usually we choose familiarity and partners that represent unfinished business from our childhood with our parents. So if we feel like You know, if you were a man who was, as a little boy, super criticized by your mother, maybe naturally you have a dominant feminine energy because your mom was masculine. And so your mom kept you small. So by default, you are going to want to look for a masculine woman, someone who is maybe critical, but you're not seeing critical at the beginning. You're seeing a leader who takes charge and knows what she wants naturally. And that's allowing you to take a backseat to your own life. That's allowing you to say, I'm not taking accountability for my choices. I'm letting my partner take accountability. So you're not really owning your life. And then what happens is eventually that woman reaches, I would say motherhood where she's inundated with demands of so many beings. And now she's looking at this man and saying, I need help. And then he's saying, well, you've never needed help before. Why do you suddenly need help? I thought you got this. This is foreign to me. I don't know what my role is. I don't know how to step up, which if he didn't have masculine leadership in his life, he wouldn't know how to do that. He wouldn't know that he wasn't taught this. So oftentimes I do see men saying, we're at this pivotal moment in our relationship where we've become new parents, where I'm recognizing that There's a lot I don't know how to do when it comes to protecting my family, helping my wife, being an equally responsible parent to my child, children. I missed the boat on something and I need to know what that is and I need to have more confidence in my life moving forward. And that's where we see the opportunity for them to find male mentorship and get back that missed opportunity from childhood.

SPEAKER_00: 22:42

Yeah, I definitely have heard that story many times. And so while, right, you have men who will maybe never seek that mentorship. And if you're in that sort of situation for the woman, how does she best step into that position? you know, her feminine in order to surrender. And when do you, you know, like I remember I was reading The Surrendered Wife by Laura Doyle. Have you read that one? And I can't remember. There's like four, four types you don't surrender to, right? Yeah. I can't recall them, but yes,

SPEAKER_01: 23:23

you're

SPEAKER_00: 23:24

very right. One of them I think is substance abuse, violence or meanness towards children. I can't remember the other two. Yep. And, you know, I got, let me, I mean, like, I got so many questions and like, you know, and then like when you think, so first let's kind of talk about as the female in that or what, what, how does one begin to recover? Yeah. The essence of who she is while walking alongside this man who may or may not. And then is there a time maybe, you know, to leave? Like, when is the time to say this is no longer working? And. But then I got other questions because I want to talk a little bit about and may not be this one's like, what is. As a father. And husband, you know, with a masculine and, you know, like a healthy level of anger. And what does that look like in, you know, I don't want to see just family scenario, but, you know, when is like that raising a voice? Is it ever acceptable when you're talking about protecting or standing up for your wife and your offspring? Right. I would most women are choosing someone instinctually. on who is going to keep me alive. I would hope so. Right. And so I know that's been, you know, but who is safe, right? So the

SPEAKER_01: 28:59

concept of safety changes with every person. So if I am a survivor of sexual abuse, someone who embodies this image of strength and maybe the, you know, lumberjack aesthetic which we kind of created the schema around masculine right the big bearded biker guys if i've been a survivor of sexual assault perhaps a man that looked like he could overpower me does not feel safe so by default i might choose a man with more feminine aesthetics, maybe a man that's smaller than me. So I always feel like I can have the opportunity to exit at any point. That doesn't necessarily mean that is complimentary to my mental health or my ability to feel safe in other ways, but my trauma is informing that. So our nervous systems tell us a lot about the type of partners that we choose. And I mean, part of my intuitive gifts is when a, when a couple sits in front of me, I can feel the energy immediately, right? If she is the one speaking mostly and speaking for him and she's leaning in towards the screen or in towards me and he's leaning back and he kind of looks like a deer in headlights and Right then and there, I know he doesn't have much of a voice. And maybe she chose that because it initially felt safe. But what she's come to realize is that his inconsistency, his wishy-washy personality, his constant communications of whatever you want, I'll go with the flow, doesn't feel safe. like stepping on a rickety bridge. And now she's come to understand that while she needed the perception of a safe person being someone who was maybe weaker, maybe less intimidating physically, she now understands that she needs more from a man. So the inner child piece is very important, but what you've also identified too is that not everybody is safe to surrender to. And that's why critical lenses, critical thinking, discernment, taking your time, listening to your body, doing your shadow work, understanding human psychology, not taking words, but actions as the main source of how somebody is going to be I mean, especially with online dating as well, we're seeing lots of people with lip service. Oh, I would do this and we would live like this and I would ensure this never happened to you. And so you begin to emotionally commit to someone. And then when you're finally in person with them and you start to build a physical life with them, you realize that that's all it was, was lip service, that they will never be the version of the person that they sold you. And that's heartbreaking in and of itself, but I think a lot of people just continue on because of what they've already invested.

SPEAKER_00: 32:33

Yeah. So it's interesting that, you know, you, so, I mean, do we attract who we need? In the moment. In the moment. Yeah. you know, I guess I believe that, you know, everybody that comes into our life in, in most, you know, close that we have relationships with and you've got people, right. You might see day to day, you know, I mean, not like I drive Lyft and Uber sometimes. So, you know, I mean, it's not the same, but these people who are what I would consider almost in our soul cluster that are soulmates, not in like the sexual, you know, like soulmate lifelong, whatever, but people and souls that come into our lives, For the purpose of our growth and evolution. And so, you know, we're brought together, right, for whatever that initial attraction, the chemicals. And I mean, is there another way besides that biochemistry, right? When you mentioned something about if you didn't know how you got there in the first place, it's really hard to kind of bring it back. back? Or is it, you know, like, is it even possible? And I guess when you say that, you know, it's like, I think of like somebody going out one night stand, all of a sudden, they're sleeping together. And the next thing they know, they don't know, really, they're just in this thing, right? Or the couple that's dated and courted and become friends. And they have a really clear understanding of what they are and aren't are attracted to and really appreciating a value about an individual, but a lot of relationships don't always start that way. A lot of,

SPEAKER_01: 34:26

uh, I mean, this is kind of when parts work is really interesting because depending on which part is predominantly driving the bus at any particular time, uh, that part is going to make a decision on whether to pursue somebody or not. So if we have a people-pleasing part, then perhaps we are, and we see this with a lot of women, perhaps we are going to be in a situation where every man who compliments us or shows us attention or shows interest in us is going to be somebody we'll allow to to pursue us because we don't want to rock the boat. We're afraid of conflict. We have scarcity mindset. What happens if I don't want to get in trouble? I don't want them to think negatively of me. So I'm going to allow them to pursue me and, oh, they're showing signs of being interested in me. Maybe they do like me. Maybe I have low self-confidence because I've been a people pleaser for so long and I don't know my worth and I don't know my value. And I'm thinking that everything that this person is saying to me is true and accurate and they can love me the way that I think I need to be loved. And so I'm going to jump right into this. Only to find out when other parts start driving the bus that the people pleaser part isn't actually getting needs met anymore. So really doing the work before getting into a relationship so that you can discern that We are not teaching young people enough information about the types of individuals that we should be allowing into our energetic spheres. And when we're thinking about sex physically, the concept of penetration and insertion, somebody else's body is literally inside of our body. And they are sharing their energetic field with us so intimately. And so their energy becomes part of our energy. And we're not talking enough about the consequences of sharing energetic fields with toxic people. And so once we become connected to this person energetically until we actively disconnect from them energetically as well, um, they remain a part of us. And then we become so consumed cognitively by being a version of ourselves that they want us to be, especially if we're people pleasing. So my wish for young people today is that they truly understood how powerful their bodies are and how sacred it is to share that level of intimacy with someone else. And especially for women, just like knowing the power in their bodies, knowing the power of their womb, that they are portals to life and not to allow anyone to have access to that unless they revere you as a goddess because you are.

SPEAKER_00: 37:51

So when you talk about the body and the nervous system, I can recall being in a relationship myself where when I didn't feel safe, my body wasn't responding, right? It wasn't opening. And I... You know, I think I first read about that in Christiane Northrup's work. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, this resonates. Like, why have I never heard this? And how our body, you know, it's almost like we disconnect or we shut down or we can even override and continue with things like the penetration when our body has clearly said no. And And so I think about that, just the importance of really tuning in and becoming aware of the sensations that are taking place and happening in our body. I do believe that these things can be worked through. And maybe even with one's current partner, I don't know if you think it really takes both people It does take both people. Working. Yeah. With an aim to grow and help one another, even though knowing that it's also our own work to do.

SPEAKER_01: 39:30

There's a big push and lots of lectures in multiple forms that people should be self-soothing, which given certain circumstances where you don't have a safe person to co-regulate, I definitely think that the skill of self-regulating, self-soothing is very important, but we are not meant to be in isolation and we are not meant to be surrounded by unsafe people. So the concept of co-regulating is so powerful. The concept of saying to someone, and we need to do this with kids constantly, we are constantly co-regulating our children, And something makes sense about co-regulating a child because their bodies haven't learned the skill of self-regulation. But if we are meant to live in conjunction with other humans, then co-regulating makes sense across the lifespan. And so your person that you create family with, that you create a home with needs to be someone that understands the concept of co-regulation. and understands the signs when you need to be co-regulated and can step into that role immediately without any agenda that is self-serving and just know my partner needs me to be the strong, grounded rock, oak tree, whatever symbolism you connect to it. And I just need to be the calm in their storm. And if your partner can't be if your partner isn't someone who is emotionally aware, self-aware, doesn't have emotional intelligence, has to logic their way out of every scenario or problem solve everything logically, then they're going to have a harder time learning how to co-regulate. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00: 41:38

This will be from either right direction. I mean... Female trying to co-reg, or are you going to see it more the opposite direction, like the calm?

SPEAKER_01: 41:51

We're going to see more. So women inherently are emotional beings. We have 28 to 32 day cycles. We're not 24 hour cycles like men. So our, our hormones inform us, our emotions inform us. We fluctuate in how we feel day to day. That's what makes us fantastic caregivers. So inherently, we are more emotional, which means that we need a partner who has the ability to co-regulate quite often. That doesn't mean that they're never going to need us to co-regulate with them. They're human. This is not about perfection. This is not about me saying men need to not cry, not show emotion. That is the exact opposite. Women enjoy men who are connected to their emotions because they're transparent, because they're clear, because they communicate. And there are many times where men have said, I don't know if I'm allowed to ask her to co-regulate with me. And if it's a matter of who comes first, because we often see this in conflict, right? There's conflict. Both parties feel upset. Both parties are having some kind of emotional upheaval. Who gets to be co-regulated with first? And it's not a matter of women are better than men by any means, but if a man's job is in a relationship under the context of polarity is to lead and initiate. And his goal is to ensure safety of his home, of his family. Then he has to step into that role of co-regulating his woman. And once she is regulated, then she has a clear mind and can say, let me do the same for you. I

SPEAKER_00: 43:50

love that. But that man is likely... more grounded.

SPEAKER_01: 44:01

Yeah. And that's the hard thing, right? Because men aren't getting that mentorship of, my eight-year-old is really into like Pokemon and all of these like fantastical shows and games. And I listen and I pay attention when he's watching them. And I hear a lot of this narrative around, I have this superpower and I don't know how to tame it. I don't know what to do with it. And so it's out of control and it's hurting people I love and I need some, I'm going to run away and live on my own. Actually, it was the Hulk that he was watching. I'm going to run away, live on my own where I am not going to hurt anybody. But what happens when we just have the right teacher to show us how to use these superpowers and use them for good and not allow them to overcome us, not allow them to control our behavior in a way that hurts people, but also allows us to communicate what's going on and to bring more self-awareness. And so with men, one of the questions you had asked about anger is that I would never expect a man to suppress his anger, but behaving in a intimidating, controlling manner outwardly and feeling your anger are two different things. Telling yourself, Ooh, I feel angry. I feel completely dysregulated. I know that anything that comes out of my mouth right now is not going to be an accurate representation on how I feel about the people in my presence. So I'm noticing that my heart is beating, that my breath is becoming super shallow. I notice my hands are clenching. Maybe they're clammy and they're pale. I need to remove myself and pay attention to my thoughts and get myself to a point where I can feel safe in my body again before I interact with the people I love. But oftentimes what happens because men aren't provided the right mentorship is I feel angry and it's because of you, you, you, and you. And now I want you to understand that you are responsible for my emotional experience. And they are never taught that their anger can be used. It can be alchemized in ways that are so productive. You're angry. Fantastic. I guess you're going to be a super strong, muscular man. Go to the gym, pick up some heavy ass shit and drop it. build muscle, use that anger, use that adrenaline, use that cortisol to move through your body so that your nervous system thinks, oh, there's a threat, which is why we're angry. Let's mimic tackling a saber tooth tiger. Let's mimic hunting down that threat that has caused our family so much fear and sorrow. Let's hunt it down. Let's kill it. Let's bring it home to the family to consume. And so by going to the gym and by strength training and alchemizing that anger into strength, our nervous system goes, oh, great. No more threat. Lovely. We handled that. Tomorrow, there might be another one and we'll deal with that then. But the combination of the adrenaline and the testosterone and the cortisol that men experience, especially when they're angry needs an outlet and strength training is one of the best. MMA is great too.

SPEAKER_00: 49:04

Oh yeah. Martial arts. Yeah. And so, um, and so you, I guess, um, Would you say there's ever, ever, you know, as I mentioned, like a raise of the voice? I mean, I know that's, you know, like I feel like, I mean, with my upbringing, it was definitely, you know, anger was misused. Yeah. That's my reality. Yes. And so I have definitely, you know, recruited or attracted partners because that's, I guess what was safe. And so, but where is this level? Like, as I've done, like kind of like I said, digging into this, like this masculine energy, like, you know, one example. And, and to me, I found this as a, I found it, you know, in looking back, I'm like, maybe that wasn't as, you know, I don't, toxic as I thought in looking back. But my sister and I were, we were riding bikes in the neighborhood. We were like five and three because that, or six and four, because my youngest sister either wasn't born or maybe on the way. So we were little. And this guy just kept driving, this teenager, you know, driving and driving fast, well beyond the speed limit. And this one time, you After the car,

SPEAKER_02: 50:48

he

SPEAKER_00: 50:49

was able to get one leg in and one leg out and stop this guy's car.

UNKNOWN: 50:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 50:53

I mean, like to me, that is, that's heroic. I know because he was putting our lives in danger. You mess with my kids. You are lucky to live. Yeah. So, you know, but because of all of, you know, other things, right. The whole thing is lumped as toxic. And I think that's, And so it's not just my personal experience, but because of the messaging, you know, the society, the society's narrative, we're in this really funky spot of, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 51:29

Black or white, it's either this or it's not. It's not. It's more complex than that.

UNKNOWN: 51:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 51:40

young men need to understand how to wield their, the power and their anchor. They need to understand how impactful and how powerful it can be for good or for bad. And if we take the nervous system and we understand the social engagement system, so the social engagement system, key components in the social engagement system are auditory processing, visual processing. So a lot of our facial features. So the safe and sound protocol by Stephen Porges, who is the founder of the polyvagal theory, he talks about how sound is a huge component to our bodies feeling safe. And unfortunately for men, their voices are very loud and deep. which means they don't get to be reckless with how they speak and what they say. And so if they're gonna raise their voice, they have to understand that it's used in moments very sparingly when it's important because those who are hearing the raised voice, those are who are in the presence of that volume, their nervous systems will all interpret that as danger. So men in the home are going to have to be more mindful of speaking in a lower tone, of not raising their voice, of removing themselves to practice breath, to have a home gym, to go for a run, to cold plunge even, just to kind of snap them out of that space of... The story I'm telling myself is that people are out to get me. And when people are out to get me, I interpret that as a threat. And then I interact with the people I love as if they are the threat. They are not the threat. So I love when a man can come walk through the door of his home and understand that voice, tone changes, volume changes. You speak to your wife as if she's a goddess, right? You speak to your children as if they are offspring of said goddess. You worship your home and your partner will worship you back because she will feel safe and your children will feel safe. Tons of men say, all I want is for my wife to come to the door when I come home, for my kids to come to the door and be so happy to see me. Is that wrong of me to want that? And I say, of course, it's not wrong of you to want that. But why aren't they doing it? Is it because when you come home and you have that expectation of nobody's happy to see me anymore, you slam down your bag or your lunch pail and you walk in and you criticize everything? Why is it so loud in here? Why is it so dirty in here? What are you guys doing with markers on the couch? Why is dishes still in the sink from this morning? Oh, I'm sorry. That feels like an awfully huge threat. No one is going to run to you at the door if that's the case. And vice versa with women too. Like, Men have a hard time moving towards a woman who is highly critical. If a woman is highly critical, her nervous system is out of whack. And that could be a result of the relationship, or it could be a result of things like birth trauma, childhood trauma, the expectation that she operate in her masculine for far too long. These are all threats. And these things keep the nervous systems in a state of protection, survival. So if a man is thinking, why aren't the people in my life responding to me the way I deserve to be responded to? First and foremost, just start with how does it sound to communicate with them? Is your voice soothing? Because we all know, you know, everybody for the where there are characters who are so embodying the masculine energy and the way they speak as men is low and slow. But the minute you mess with the people that they love, their work, the things that they take pride in, it becomes louder, more intense, and takes up more space. Just like a male lion. Just like any... predatorial male in any species.

SPEAKER_00: 56:30

So now would there be a time, you know, when you, you know, getting just as, you know, would there be a time when you realize, you know, you're on that fence maybe of like, is this working or not? I know it's not cut and dry or black and white, but Because I think sometimes people will hang on hoping. Because they get glimpses. Yeah, glimpses. So it's like, I know I was once told I was a hope-a-holic. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who's been told that. But I'm like, okay, yeah. You know, and so you can get, like you said, glimpses that you think. When is that? Like what? That it's no longer working really for the couple or... the people that they are, you know, their model, you know, because our kids see this and are learning, right? You mentioned if these young men, I don't know if it's just that, you know, this generation don't have that model of masculinity or even a healthy relationship, like when is that time? Are there, you know, is there insight that you might share for those out there who are wondering, like, is it time? I know... There's books out there. Should I stay or should I go? Or what is it? Too good to leave, too bad to stay. You're out there and it's tough.

SPEAKER_01: 58:01

I don't want people to think that if there's conflict in your relationship, then you're doomed because conflict helps us grow. As long as we know how to move towards repair quickly. If you go to your partner and you say, These are the things that I need to feel safe in this relationship. These are the things I want us to move together, to work on, to cultivate safety, to change the direction of of how we've been raising our children to step into empathy and understanding and seeing each other for who we are and not the stories we're telling ourselves about each other, this is what I need from you. And your partner says, no, I'm not willing to do that. They've given you their answer. If they say, I am willing to do that, but they keep showing empathy Or not showing up. They'll say, you know, we don't need therapy anymore. Or, you know, date nights are so ridiculous. We don't need to talk about that. Then it becomes a conversation around, I'm noticing every single time I ask for you to be accountable and moving towards creating a healthier dynamic, you come up with a reason why we shouldn't be doing that. This is not acceptable for me. And unfortunately, I need more from you if this relationship is going to work. And determining what are your non-negotiables. And only a person can decide that for themselves. And once you communicate that clearly to a partner and they still choose not to follow through... Then really thinking about, am I not leaving again because of an inner child wounding? Am I terrified that somebody is going to blame me? Am I terrified that I'm going to be the bad person? Are people going to say that I ruined my children because I stepped out of the relationship and I told him that I wouldn't put up with this anymore? What stories is he going to come up with about me? And then also thinking about children. You know, is he going to take me to court? Is she going to take me to court? Is there going to be child custody issues? Is this going to create more turmoil for our children? It's so complex. It really cannot be a cookie cutter approach to anything. But if you don't have a house or children or big lifestyle commitments connecting you to someone, then I would really re-examine what your non-negotiables are for any relationship, not just this relationship. What are your expectations for any relationship? And if you were to be honest with yourself, how many of those things is this current relationship meeting? And not saying right then and there, that's it, they don't meet these, then the relationship is over, present it to them. I sat with this. I realize these are the things that I need in the relationship. And I, I can honor the fact that you probably need some things too. So I want to make space for that. But if the person looks at that list and says, these expectations are too high for me, I'm not willing to meet half of these. There's your answer.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:37

Yeah. So, and then part of it's about having a hard conversation and getting, you know, getting real with yourself and, and, you know, gaining clarity.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:48

And we need men. I don't ever want the assumption to be that I'm a man hater. I am not a man hater. I

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:58

know. I think I have more compassion. I, you know, I have a son and a daughter and I, I, I think men have had a tough go of it to tell you the truth. I mean, women too, but we're just living in this sort of twisted world right now. And I think men too, you know, having, as you mentioned, having to suppress, right. Or hold back. That can't be, that can be, that can't be good for the soul for one. And then, You know, I think, well, I could, you know, I could go back and, you know, I did a, I don't know how far, you know, there was a gal I had on about a year ago. And we talked about just the circumcision of young boy babies, you know, in and of itself, just like a spiritual invasion from the get go. And, you know, an attack on their masculinity almost from the beginning. And then, you know, they get older and I don't think schools really have been designed for little boys. And so I think, you know, they're kind of in a tough spot and, you know, we all are, but hopefully we can begin to relearn, you know, what's been sort of programmed out of us. And, you know, I think maybe it is, could potentially be like this loss of polarity creating such dynamics and so much divorce. I don't know that. But I think it could definitely be influencing.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:43

You know, I just want to see women soften. I just want women to feel safe enough in the world where they can soften and not feel like they have to be so hard.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:55

Yeah. So where can people connect with you? I mean, I love watching your little clips. They're fantastic. The one on the clitoris today. I love it. I mean, like I read, let's see a reclamation. I don't know. It was maybe 2017. Yeah. I don't know if you read that one. That's where I first learned that the clitoris has 8,000 nerve endings. And so you're always got great little snippets of. Thank you. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:22

Yeah. I I'm online at the rogue.therapist on Instagram, mindonline.ca on Instagram and at heart and hearth ministry on Instagram. Otherwise my website is www.mindonline.ca. Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:40

Well, all that information will be linked in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:45

Beautiful. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:47

Thank you so much. It was a pleasure. It was a pleasure talking to you. Have a great day.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:52

You too. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.