Resilient, Not Perfect: Helping Mothers Move Beyond Burnout featuring Dr. Hilary Claire

Today, I sit down with Dr. Hilary Claire.  We explore the realities of motherhood burnout, the invisible mental and emotional load so many moms carry, and the pressure to meet unrealistic standards of "perfect parenting".  

We also dive into a common daily stressor for families: picky eating.  Rather than approaching it with fear, control, or shame, we discuss how to navigate food challenges with curiosity, compassion, and connection. This conversation reframes picky eating as communication, sometimes to something deeper such as sensory issues, nutrient deficiencies, or reflexes that have yet integrated.  

Dr. Hilary Claire is a clinical psychologist specializing in nutrition and environmental medicine, a yoga teacher, author, and mama who brings a whole-body, whole-life approach to wellness.  Dr. Hilary's work centers on empowering parents -- especially moms -- to nurture resilient kids and vibrant others in a world that often feels misaligned with how our bodies and nervous systems are designed to thrive.  She blends research, lived experience, and deeply rooted holistic strategies to support emotional wellbeing, brain health and sustainable lifestyle shifts for families. 

Connect with Dr. Hilary Claire: 

Website: www.drhilaryclaire.com

Instagram: @drhilaryclaire

Facebook: Dr. Hilary Claire 

PURCHASE BOOK NOW!

Get Patched! 

Start Breathing & Find Your Flow! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 1:19

Welcome back to today's episode of Unapologetic Living. I'm Elizabeth Elliott and I'm your hostess. And today I have Hillary Dr. Hilary Clare with me. Um now your background, you are a psychologist for moms and picky eaters, right? Parenting.

SPEAKER_01: 1:35

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 1:37

Um, and you host a podcast called Wild and Wild Podcast. You're an author, a coach, podcaster, speaker. Um, and I was drawn to your work. I don't even know how I found you. Maybe Holly's um Holly Deval Devalley. Anyway, I know she follows you. And I had her on the show. She does cranial sacral therapy and a lot of holistic work. Uh, she's down in I think the Carolinas. Um anyway, I don't know if it was her healing mama. Anyway. But I love that you're out here doing this work and working with through this holistic lens, um, parents, parenting, mamahood. You have a little one, I think, yourself, right?

SPEAKER_01: 2:27

Yeah, I have two boys. So they are one of them is turning nine next week, and the other one is six, almost seven.

SPEAKER_00: 2:35

Um, and I remember so my kids are now almost 24 and 20. Wow. And at the time, some of the decisions I made were so out there. And I still think I'm so grateful for the decisions I made so long ago, but there was far less of a community back then than there is today for moms who are parenting through that holistic centric approach.

SPEAKER_01: 3:11

Yeah, right now there's it's so big, it's almost like overwhelming how many options there are and how many different like groups there are online for moms looking for an alternative way.

SPEAKER_00: 3:22

Yeah, and I think it's great that that you guys, you, you guys, gals are out there because at times it could feel, you know, very alone. It took me it took me a while. I finally found my tribe in this town of Louisville, Kentucky, but it did take some time and and I like years actually to find the the even the tribe of mamas that felt like we were doing things in a similar fashion. Whereas um, you know, it it just again, I I had to they did kind of end up landing in my lap. It was like I was praying for them, but it took time.

unknown: 4:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 4:03

I think that's still the case for a lot of mums now. Like I say, it can be overwhelming. There's so many options, and that's great. That's more online, but I think on the day-to-day in person, it still feels like an upward battle, and you feel like you're going against the grain and convention on so many levels as moms who are taking a more alternative path. I think that that is very much the reality, unless people live in certain pockets where that alternative way of raising your kids is the norm, which isn't the case for most of us.

SPEAKER_00: 4:34

Right, right. It isn't. Um, I think maybe, yeah, certain pockets. So, what brought you to like what is a little bit of your background and what brought you here? What's what's you know, your journey? And maybe you were always in this camp.

SPEAKER_01: 4:51

I've always thought of health quite holistically, and I've never been able to like um compartmentalize things. I think everything impacts everything. So, but like initially I was I studied nutrition because I was very into food and diet and the impact that had on our bodies and our brains. But then I switched over to psychology and followed that through. But in that process, I was still like being a yoga instructor and I did some personal training. So I was still like seeing things a bit more, like it's not just talk therapy and that's gonna solve everything. Um, and I definitely, gosh, when I had my first child, I think at that point I had been working like with kids and with parents and across the board with lots of different people in as a psychologist. But that was when I really realized that like working with moms was what I wanted to do because I saw the struggle that like mothers were going through in the modern day, making modern motherhood like so challenging, whether it's taking care of themselves and not getting burnt out or the parenting struggles that they're going through. So I really like changed my focus uh in that respect. And during that time, I then went and studied a fellowship in environmental and nutritional medicine, which just helped me to broaden that holistic view and have a bit more like credentials behind it rather than like my own learning. So I find everything I do, like whether it's like mom burnout or picky eating or like any aspect of my work and honestly my parenting and my life, I look at it through quite a holistic lens, looking at the mindset, the environment, the impact of other people and community, our physiology, our nutrition, and our gut health, on and on and on, because I don't think like everything is impacted by everything. And if we only look at it through one lens, we're missing out on so much. And that's not to say that if you only do talk therapy or you only do body work or you only do X, Y, Z, that's not helpful. It absolutely is, but it doesn't necessarily fix everything.

SPEAKER_00: 7:07

Right. Yeah, no, it really is a um multifaceted approach. I agree 100%. You can do all those things, but and I found even more recently or have come to understand that you can do all of those things and you can do every one of those things correct. But if our nervous system is dysregulated, then true healing really will have a hard time taking hold and being sustained.

SPEAKER_01: 7:34

Yeah, the nervous system is like uh such a big piece. And I love that right now the nervous system is really like getting its moment in social media and everywhere because it is so important. And I think we've there's no like like it's it's getting its moment because we need that, because so many of us have forgotten about that and we're eating right, we're trying to sleep right, we're trying to move our body at 6 a.m. and doing all these things, but we're forgetting about our nervous system and how we can support it. And it is an essential piece. We can't do well, we can do all the other things, but it's not gonna be that helpful if we're not like feeling grounded and safe in our bodies because our bodies are still then gonna be scared and on alert, thinking there's a tiger around the corner. So you're not gonna even digest that organic food.

SPEAKER_00: 9:56

Yeah. Right, it won't be assimilated. Um so when you what when you uh when you started, you know, while you were seeing moms, what sort of parental struggles, parenting struggles, did you find were at the forefront? You say mom burnout, but when you say and and maybe when you say mom burnout, like what does that look like? What were the complaints? What you know, because I remember having little kids, and it I mean it felt so I mean it did feel hard. I can't quite pinpoint or even remember or articulate why it felt hard. But I remember always looking forward to the next stage. Gosh, I can't wait till they can do this, and oh, and I'm not so glad that they can do that because this brings a whole new stressor. Um and you know, now that I'm on the other side of it, it almost feels like, what was I even, what was I freaking burning out about?

SPEAKER_01: 11:11

Yeah, absolutely. And it's funny as the years go on, your brain does forget about those struggles to such a big degree. But when you're in it, it feels like those days just go on and on and on, and you're never gonna get to that easier stage where your kids have more ability to be independent and do things by themselves. So the work that I do with moms with mom burnout, like I work with moms mainly in those first um 10 years of having kids. But the burnout that I really focus on is postnatal depletion. And I think that's where so much of it starts. And then we can get burnt out later down the track, but I think a lot of it stems from the same reasons. So postnatal depletion, it's just it's this, it's a useful word because I think a lot of people don't resonate with feeling postnatally depressed or postnatally anxious and depleted. We can feel that in our bodies, right? It's that exhaustion and that overwhelm and just feeling depleted, like you have nothing left to give. And so it to just like explain it, it is that feeling of overwhelm, burnout. It comes from our bodies like being inflamed and actually depleted of like key nutrients. And like, I guess there's a lot of different factors that play into it, but ultimately, like that is where that I focus a lot of my work. I've written three books based on this, but also it's not something that necessarily happens like when your kid is three months old or six months old. It is something that can really stay with you as a mom. Like some people are still experiencing this a decade after having kids. Because if you don't replenish your body, you don't work on your nervous system, you don't change your mindset so you prioritize yourself along with your kids, you're gonna stay depleted for possibly the rest of your life, but especially for those first 10 years where being a parent is gonna take like a really, really um big part of your energy.

SPEAKER_00: 13:15

Yeah, I I so my connection with like feeling depleted. Well, I you know, when my kids were born, actually both of them cried a lot. They had, I don't know if we would say colic, but I guess so I remember those were my I those those I can clearly remember. It was so trying. It was emotionally draining. I was exhausted. Um, I was having, and I don't know what exactly caused like these like daily chronic subtle headaches. They were, and they could have been hormonal, but I also remember the anxiousness that came up and arose, which is funny because as I'm going into perimenopause, I'm finding myself anxious about similar uh things that kind of had left and disappeared for a while. Um but you know, would you like how I understanding that? How do you see it showing up in their lives? Like what are do you they don't want to do things, they're not connecting with friends, they aren't like how is it because like that's it's almost so far back for me?

SPEAKER_01: 14:40

It it can show up in so many different ways. So we're all different. Some people do get really isolated, other people may go out more, but it's like it's that anxiety, like you say. That's the one factor. It's that just like your body feeling so so heavy that like every little thing is an effort. It's that not being able to sleep, but being so exhausted, it's um feeling overwhelmed or indecisive about like the smallest things, like what to make for dinner. And maybe before you had kids, like you were working and you were making really important decisions, and then suddenly you're like, I can't even like make a decision of what to buy at the grocery store, and I'm just standing here in the aisle, just like staring off into space. Like it can even look like that. So it can really show up for people in so many different ways. But yeah, that overwhelm, low mood, or mood that's really up and down, irritability, anxiety, indecision. I I think I said overwhelm a few times there already. Um, and that the feeling of really just like feeling like depleted, like you just have nothing left to give, and that tired but wired.

SPEAKER_00: 15:46

Those are a lot of and then oftentimes that can really, I mean, I know like just one that you know, I don't know, pops up like low libido, not into sex, and like, no, I've got it, I'm nothing, though. No more touching.

SPEAKER_01: 15:59

Yeah, it's being touched out, even right. Like that's a really common thing in those early years of motherhood that you're like, I just overstimulated, like, and I just can't have any more touch from anybody in any way. Yeah, so overwhelmed, overstimulated, those are really big ones as well. It's I think people often look for just that like low mood or that anxiety, but it can be all those other things as well that can indicate that you are really struggling in that time. And this can all come from like a number of different reasons. You might most moms are actually depleted of the key nutrients that they need, and then they're just giving more and more to their kids, whether through pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding, um, from societal like beliefs of like what we should do to be like a good mom. That can burn us out, trying to live up to those impossible expectations of being a super mom and I can hold it and do it all with a smile on my face, and I'm not struggling, I don't need to ask for help. Like, that's so unhelpful. That can really lead them towards being um burnt out because you can't sustain that. Um, often like our mindset can really like get in the way. So if we do go in with like a type A, I can do this, or perfectionist tendencies, that can kind of push us into burnout in lots of areas of our lives, but especially parenting, because we can't always get it right. There's another little person here, like it's not all about what we do. So that can be a big thing. Um, how we're sleeping, how we're breathing. Like, are you a mouth breather? And do you snore at night? So you're already setting yourself up to have poor sleep or those few hours that you're actually getting, that can be massive. And even just like the toxins that you're exposed to, like, are those just burdening your body? And you're not able to um like you don't have good gut health. Uh, there's just so many aspects of our lives that really set mums up to struggle. And I think so many of these things set people up in general to struggle, but motherhood is one of those times where, like, if you've been getting by before, it can really hit you, and you're like, I can't keep being exposed to all these things and trying to do all these things, and it can hit you. And that's when a lot of mums do become overwhelmed or burnout.

SPEAKER_00: 18:15

Do you feel it is um related to the fact that here you've birthed this baby? I I once read that uh you know, postpartum depression can definitely be a depletion of nutrients, especially like the omega-3s and the fatty acids. Like if you are nutrient deficient, that baby is going to take everything it can from you so that he or she can develop. Um, and so leaving you, as you said, deplete literally depleted from the nutrients that are keeping you thriving and feeling good and energetic and vital.

SPEAKER_01: 18:55

Yeah, it's a huge part. And when you think about like the food that we eat, our gut health, like most of us don't have um like very good gut lay lining or good bugs in there, helping us actually absorb those nutrients that we do eat. So so many of us go into pregnancy, like already low or depleted of key nutrients. And then, like you say, our babies suck everything out of us, which we want them to because we want them to develop and have those omega-3s for like great brain health, but we need to be repleting our stores in that process. And oftentimes we're not, or if we are, we're we do have that poor like gut lining and we're just not absorbing it, or we're stressed and our nervous system is on like crazy high alert because we're always on and we don't get any breaks, so then we're again not absorbing it, and those nutrients are just going through us. So that actual depletion of minerals and like fatty acids and vitamins is like such a big piece of it, whether it's depletion or like postnatal depression, absolutely that's you have to address that to like make improvements. But to address that, then you do have to address the mindset, the nervous system, the gut health, the toxins that you're exposed to, all the things as well to help support your body to actually absorb and hold on to those nutrients. And I think a big thing is too like a lot of parents are having kids quite quickly one after the other, or having them when they're older. And so they're not repleting those stores between kids. So maybe they were like fine after their first, but it's after their second or their third. Like things are just getting taken from their body over and over, and they're not filling those stores, and that can lead to them feeling like a lot worse second or third time around.

SPEAKER_00: 20:47

Yeah, I it reminds me after my second, I was thinking, so there for a minute, I I've struggled for with some uh hypochondria. I was, and now my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer at 35 and then re she had a reoccurrence at 37. Now, this was like she's 72 almost, she's 71 now. So you're talking like 35 years ago, 36 years ago. So at the time, like she was like one of so few who were getting diagnosed that young. And as I started to approach 35, I started my anxiety started to heighten over. I'm gonna get this. Uh, I was in sort of um a very challenging relationship with my kid's father at the time. And she had also been in a similar situation. So, you know, I'm like trying to connect the pieces because I know that things like that, these patterns can sort of trickle down to, you know, future um generations. And so, but I also like in looking back as we were talking, it was on the heels of my second baby. And so, like it also like it was less like, and then this fear of if it happened, um, you know, this fear that my kids would be growing up mother, you know, motherless. So it was just a lot, but I do think you know, as you say that, it makes sense that it could have been heightened because it was a you know, a second pregnancy, even though it had been three and a half years later, um, and we were doing all the right things. I felt stressed also because our financial situation wasn't solid, you know. So it's that underlying stress that you don't even really know is there, but it's kind of there. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01: 22:45

Yeah, and we can often, like before having kids, we can often like tolerate that. And kind of get by and that stress is there. But then when you add this, like 100% of the time taking care of this other person and your amygdala, like the part of their brain that has you getting fearful and anxious, growing so you're aware of like keeping them alive. Sometimes that underlying stress just becomes too much at that point if you add on those other things. So it's very normal that afterwards that we do, after we have kids, we do become more anxious. And I think that's why working on like supporting our nervous system, working on like mindfulness and gratitude and like breathing techniques, body work, seeking support and whatever modalities work for us is so, so key at that time. Otherwise, that amygdala can like keep growing and growing, and that anxiety can turn into something really unhelpful rather than it just being useful in making sure that we keep our child alive, you know, and because kids, you know, they do things, they don't have their frontal lobe working and able to like be aware and about the decisions that they make. So it is useful that we have that heightened anxiety, but we have to keep it in check and we have to support ourselves in that.

SPEAKER_00: 24:02

So do you find moms find you after they are moms, or do you find that you have young women who are looking to conceive, looking for insight on how to best prepare for motherhood? Or maybe it's both.

SPEAKER_01: 24:21

It's both. I wish it was a lot more of the second one of like, like I've had people read my books and they're like, oh my gosh, this helps so much in preparing me for thinking about afterbirth. Because when you're like wanting to have a kid, you think about okay, how do I get pregnant? How do I stay pregnant, stay healthy? What about what do I do for birth? But often we totally forget about like, okay, now I have a baby at home, and what does that all look like? So the moms that like read my books or work with me before having kids, it's not that it's not a struggle for them, but they know a lot of the information already. They have that support in place, and that's really helpful. But most people like find my program or my books or work with me like once they're depleted and once they're like, you know, crawling back, trying to um get their their identity and their life and their energy back. So I would I wish that people were more proactive, but I think uh human nature is like let's wait until the problem's really bad to try to solve it. That's just how we are. But I think with more and more information and podcasts, uh, people are talking about this more, or that might just be like the bubble I live in that I see that postpartum planning is something we talk about. So it's hard for me to say if that is actually changing or it's just changing in my little space, but I hope it is. And I think we need to go back to that time where like traditional cultures used to prepare couples before having a baby with like the key like fertility foods, which really help the mom's body and really help the baby's development. And then they had like that sacred time after having a baby where moms were taken care of and weren't expected to do things outside of heel and breastfeed and bond with their baby, and we need to bring more of that back, and you're seeing glimpses of that happening, but we absolutely need to move in that direction if we want postnatal depletion, depression, mom burnout, whatever we want to call in, whatever we're feeling to not be so normal.

SPEAKER_00: 26:29

Yeah, I know I was talking to my son, he got married this past year, and uh, she's ready to have, you know, she wants to be a mom, she wants uh, you know, several kids, and I love to hear that. That's exciting. Um, and uh they were, you know, just briefly talking, they're not there yet, but um I'm like microplastics, you need to make sure you're drinking your filtered water and you need to make sure you take off the underwear, and you know, he's like, Mom, I'm like, I'm sending your testicles really good, juju, because you don't, even though we've done this our whole life. He's like, a little bit of him wants to rebel against mom. And uh, you know, it's like I, you know, you know, you might even want to quit drink, you know. So they were already kind of talking about like quit drinking up to like really prepare, which is something I didn't do, and probably so many people don't do. But it's such, you know, but but with today, too, is many people who are having trouble conceiving and the infertility rates, what they are, it's probably more important now more than ever to take that time to really nourish your body so that you do have a healthy pregnancy and healthy baby, especially when they're finding like what, like 260, 270 chemicals in the in the you know, the cord blood.

SPEAKER_01: 27:54

Yeah. Um and I wonder if like because fertility is on such a decline and sperm count is on such a decline, if more people are probably aware of that preconception care, and that's probably actually bringing it more to the forefront. So it's an awful situation. Like we don't want to see fertility going down, but at least it's bringing this positive thing that people are becoming more aware of. Okay, we need to get ourselves healthy before having a baby, because yeah, we plan so much for like weddings and different things, and then we're like, oh, let's just have a baby and not think about any of those things. Whereas like, okay, like a wedding is great, and but that's one day, like let's focus on like this child's health for their whole life and what you can do ahead of time because there's so much you can do. And by doing all that, you're supporting the parents that and that mother's body as well, so she goes through that nourished and vital, so she can take care of that kid to the best of her ability. Because if we go through that and our kids are unhealthy and they're struggling and we're depleted and exhausted, like that's just setting everybody up to struggle. So I love that you're sending that information and talking to your son about that, because it's important, even if you have, even if he's been doing that his whole life, like even if you don't have that much plastic in your house and you eat organic and you always open your windows to let like fresh air in, we're still exposed to so much that we have to do a lot of extra stuff to just like let our bodies be.

SPEAKER_00: 29:21

Yeah, it's uh definitely a challenge because it's everywhere you go. They're inundating you. I mean, you know, the different businesses and um because he's got these free cups from a football game totally laden with microplastics. And his wife the other day was like, I switched cups because I heard that this one had lead, blah, blah, blah, you know, like she's, you know, and and I was like, Yeah, you never know. You know, that's why I love my glass. And he's like, I'm just gonna keep drinking. I'm like, come on, Noah, come on, please. You know, but that's just his way, you know, like he's like, it's it's this big, but they don't drink soda. So I'm like, you know, love that. And um, they don't drink, you know, uh artif artificially sweetened beverages or big water. Um, so, but you know, it is, it's it's tough today, even when you're doing all the things right, um it is still, I think, challenging to um, because every, you know, even like touching the receipts when you go to the grocery store and you don't think it's a big deal. Um, and I think that's probably the mindset of a lot of people. Well, it's but when it's day in, day out, and it's here and it's there, and it's home, and it's, you know, there are so many factors that we can't control, um, all the more reason to really nourish our body so that our body can handle the toxic burden of this stuff that we will never be able to be completely free of.

SPEAKER_01: 30:54

Yeah. And I think it's useful to like educate yourself on those things like the receipts and plastic exposure. And I think it's very common that when you start learning about that, you can become overwhelmed and scared of everything. And like that's not helpful for your nervous system, your digestion, for anything. But I think sometimes you just have to go through that. And then on the other side, you realize, okay, I'm gonna be exposed to this, but I have these skills. I know just don't take the receipt and you don't need to stress about it anymore because you just have things and like habits in place that keep you as healthy as possible and like lower exposure to these things, but also knowing like it's not about no exposure, because that can just derail us in a whole other way with stress, and that's not helpful.

SPEAKER_00: 31:39

So I there's a couple questions that come up for me because you are um working with moms and you uh are looking through this holistic whole person lens. What are your thoughts on as um home birth versus natural birth in a hospital or a birth center? And I think it's you know, obviously it's it's um a very individual and personal decision, uh, but just curious through your lens, uh, what kind of wisdom and insight you might have to share around those.

SPEAKER_01: 32:16

I think it's really useful to learn and get exposure to the different options and have really positive birth stories around you and not get too um like rigid and focused of like my birth needs to go this way because birth will not go the way you envision it. Because we even if it is your second or your third or your fourth baby, like every birth is a different experience. So, like I love um like there's so much great work around like natural birth and um like home birth and free birth, and like that's great, but like just don't be so rigid that if you do change your mind that you feel like a failure that you did something different. I think that's very, very important. But I think it is very important to like learn about okay, if you do have intervention, like what could that lead to and be informed about that so you don't just let other people make decisions for you if you do go the route of like having your um baby in a hospital. And if you do decide to go that route, or honestly, any however you're gonna do it, make sure that you do surround yourself with uh support people who can who know what you want and can advocate for you when you're in a position like that um you shouldn't have to be making those decisions. You're not in your cognitive mind, you shouldn't be in your cognitive mind when you're birthing, you're more in your like instinctual mind and in your body. So it's really important to have like those people in place, whatever you choose. Um, I think that that yeah, I think that's missing a lot. So I was really lucky, like my husband, he is he's a doctor, so I like I didn't take any drugs or anything, but I was just like I felt totally like drugged on like my own orphans. And he caught. But I knew he may he could advocate for like I don't want any treatment, I don't want anything. So I didn't have to worry about that, and that's so freeing to actually let that birth process happen when you have that person who is the rational brain for you. So I think that's very important, but yeah, I think it's just about having the information, learning those stories, and um having a plan of what you want, but being somewhat flexible with that because sometimes things aren't gonna turn out how you want. So I don't know if that quite answers your question, but I don't think there's a right or wrong.

SPEAKER_00: 34:47

Yeah, I think that's great. I um I think yes, the support people who know what you want and can ad for advocate for that are really imperative. I know I hired Adula, but but um like I I just was talking to a client uh on Saturday, she's um she had her baby around 32 years old, her daughter's 32, so she's like 64. And the one thing, and she'd done a little research, she wanted to have a natural childbirth, uh, and she did have a vaginal natural childbirth, but she did not want an epesiotomy. And that was like her number one thing, and she felt like that doctor just almost purposely did not listen and gave her that epesiotomy, and she, you know, just that she walking away feeling very violated and not honored. Um and so, and then just knowing that this is a huge day in a woman's life. She goes from you know, to mother. What would be the word? What is she? I mean, she's already a mother maiden, but you know, she's a maiden growing this baby and nurturing, you know, nourishing this child to mother. And I remember when I went through a doula training years ago, I think she wrote a book. I don't know the book. Her name is Penny Simkin, but it's like the second most remembered day next to the wedding, like verbatim, like almost every woman was able to recall what happened on their birthing day and how important it is, you know. I agree, flexibility. I could have, you know, one went one way, one went another. I couldn't have guessed either one. You know, one was at home and one was in a hospital. But again, uh that is one where there has to be some flexibility. And later I went through um a training called birthing from within um and to bring that back here uh to teach other women, but you know, like you can't, you know, to walk away. And the premise was that no matter the birth outcome, that you walk away feeling empowered. What because you know, there are women who go in with this very rigid thought, like it has to be this way, and then they have an emergency cesarean, like a true emergency cesarean, and you can walk away feeling empowered, or you can walk away feeling and and and to honor the emotions either way.

SPEAKER_01: 37:27

Yeah. And I think that empowerment piece is so important because there are people who know for whatever reason they have to have a cesarean, and they can go into even a planned one, so empowered and feel so proud and capable. But other people can have like a totally different experience. So I think, yeah, it's about that flexibility, it's about how can you be empowered in that. And if if things do go the way you don't want them to, like working with somebody afterwards about that. So you're not um you're able to process that and you're being able to like forgive yourself because oftentimes like we hold on to like I was a failure in that situation if it doesn't go the way that we want. It's not off it sometimes we feel anger and resentment towards like that doctor in this example, but sometimes it's like about us, and that is so important that we work through that if if we do have that experience. And unfortunately, birth trauma and births going not the way you want is quite common. So I think it really is important to address that for people who are feeling that way.

SPEAKER_00: 40:45

Um, so now do you see dads?

SPEAKER_01: 40:49

I don't. Okay. No, like no, I don't work with dads.

SPEAKER_00: 40:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 40:54

No.

SPEAKER_00: 40:54

Just wondering, you know, because you're working with moms, I was just curious if like ever you have like two come in together to kind of like navigate.

SPEAKER_01: 41:03

No, I I definitely like have people that I will refer people to if they're like planning for a postpartum and they want both. I mean, I would be open to having it. I just generally yeah, I generally work with the moms more, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 41:18

But yeah, yeah, it was just a question. I mean, yeah, it was just bothering, you know. I'm not a game. But um, and then I know that you so you've written a book, you wrote uh you said three. You've got a yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 41:32

So the three books that I've written are The Motherhood Reset, Nourished Mama, and Mama Let It Go. And they're like three different components of like working through that mum burnout, or just for moms who want to feel really vital, like you don't have to be burnt out to read them, absolutely. Like we can all improve our vitality as people, as mothers. But yeah, one addresses kind of like what you want and taking care of yourself. One works on more like holistic health so you can truly be vital and energetic. And then the the mama let it go one is about your limiting beliefs, perfectionism, old identities you're holding on to. So many different things that we need to like work through mindset-wise and belief-wise, so we can like really honor ourselves and do motherhood how we want rather than like how we're supposed to or how our neighbor is, or just feel stuck in like victim mentality.

SPEAKER_00: 42:28

Yeah, and and uh I've mentioned it in multiple podcast episodes. One of the reasons at birth this was so that everybody could live unapologetically, that in an alignment with their what they feel is right in their bones, you know, in their body and their heart. Um, and and yeah, when you are out there and you're watching this mom and that mom, and uh, you know, all these things, and my kids gotta do this, and we've got to go to preschool, or maybe they could just stay home. Like there's so many things out there, and really it comes back to just like really honoring, you know, listening to that mama's intuition.

SPEAKER_01: 43:04

Yeah, yeah, and noticing all those people around you, and even noticing, like, okay, well, who am I really jealous of here? Like, okay, well, maybe that means that there is some aspect of their life that I want more of. Like, maybe that mom does look so playful and energetic with her kids, and I'm feeling so tired. Like, I want to create that in my life. Like, great, like you can listen and notice those people around you, but don't just absorb it um unconsciously. Like, be aware of it, be like, oh, that person's really I'm noticing their mothering. Like, what am I noticing about it? Oh, I don't want a mother that way. Oh, and I do want to mother that way. Okay, well, I'm gonna take pieces of this and do what fits for me.

SPEAKER_00: 43:43

Yeah, I love that. And I think it's great to um, you know, in hindsight, I don't know that I probably reflected enough on that. And I I think it's um I like when you say it's just like when you see just any individual, right? And you see them doing this, I want more of that in my life. Um instead of becoming jealous or envious, right? Learn how to how to cultivate more of what you want. And then as you said, there are gonna be mothers and individuals out there, and you're like, oh, I don't like sometimes they are our best teacher, right? I don't want to be that way. And then also just looking at at the overall environment within which these mothers and families like, does this look like what I want, you know, my circle to feel or embody or you know, accept, and then and and or vice versa, you know, like when you're looking at the big picture, the whole picture, the familial what does this look like, and how do I want this to feel in my body and in our lives, and what do I want to bring to my kids' lives?

SPEAKER_01: 44:55

Yeah. And I think, like you say, a lot of the time we don't reflect on those things, but then we end up just going with whatever. Around us. And months down the track, years down the track, decades down the track, we're realizing oh, I'm not actually living or mothering or raising my kids or living in an environment that like is what I want. And whenever we notice that, like that's when we can start to shift things and get clear on like, well, what do I want? Like who around me is doing something that does interest me. And what am I doing that I I don't like that's draining me? Like we can always come back to that and do that. It's never too late.

SPEAKER_00: 45:36

Right. Yeah. It's never too late. I love that. Yeah. And and sometimes it can be difficult to let go of and release what's no longer serving us. But in the end, it will ultimately, you know, when we're doing what's in our highest and best good, we really are doing what's in the highest and best good for all around because it's all highest and best good, you know. So I know you you have a picky eater's guide. I know, totally changing directions. I know that that is a big one for mamas. Um it is uh, you know, you can become fearful again. One of those anxieties, is my child getting enough food? Are they getting enough nutrients? My kid won't eat this, and you, you know, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 46:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 46:24

So I'm I'm working on a book right now. Okay. My goal is to have it done, and like it's so close to being done, but I'm just not, I haven't done that last like 15%. And it's about picky eating. So in the meantime, I have this the picky eating guide, which it goes over like mindset, psychological issues, physiological, nutritional, and environmental things that are impacting picky eating. So, like leading to picky eating, and then like what you can do to remediate those. But picky eating, I think we often do think like, oh, if we just like force our kid to eat something, like they'll eat it. Um, or if we're like punitive about it, or if we reward them. But oftentimes, like I think it's really important to look at the root cause because a lot of the time it it comes back to nutrients that are low. So if you're like low in zinc, you're gonna taste food differently, you're gonna experience food differently, and often you become pickier. Like sometimes all you have to do is increase zinc levels, and kids suddenly aren't picky. Like so I'm not saying that's the only thing, but it's important to look at the root cause. It's not just like behavioral things. So, yeah, I like to look at picky eating from like physiologically nutritional, um, even like primitive reflexes that might not be integrated that can impact picky eating. That's a huge one. Sensory issues, which are often connected to those reflexes, uh, the mindset of the parent, the behavior and modeling of the parent and other kids around them, and yeah, like the environment and your nervous system as a parent, what that nervous system is at the table. So we want to create safety for our kids in eating environments, and that starts with us feeling safe. And when you have a picky eater and you're like, oh man, like I worked so hard, I made this food, they're not gonna eat any of this, and you get so stressed about it before you even sit down at the table. Like your kids, everybody feels your energy. And then if they get stressed because they're feeling you're stressed, your stress, that stops your appetite. If you're feeling stressed, like your body's like, Well, I'm shutting down digestion because I'm in survival. So there's so many different um things that we can like tap into. So for every child and every family, the root cause and the ways to remediate picky eating can look different. But I think it's so key to look at those root cause reasons initially.

SPEAKER_00: 52:00

Yeah, when I so I went through a program called Handle. Have you heard of it?

SPEAKER_01: 52:05

No.

SPEAKER_00: 52:06

Um, it's it's stand it's an acronym and it stands for holistic approach to neurodevelopmental learning efficiency. Okay. And it's movement-based, very holistic, um like movements uh that helped to reorganize the neural pathways. Anyway, the founder was nonverbal and autistic till nine years old. And then over time, bouncing on a pogo stick, things started to shift for her and she became verbal and over time created this program. Um, her name is Judith Bluestone. It's definitely worth looking into. Uh, if you were to look it up on the internet, you'd be looking up the handleinstitute.org, I believe. And that was really the first time I heard about, you know, food potentially being related to sensory issues. And uh because they work a lot with those individuals with neurological um differences. And, you know, I was like, oh my gosh, this makes so much sense. Because, like, for some, and then that's where I also learned about the primitive reflex work. Um like if it if the food might be too loud for a child, they might not eat it, or it could it and simply could be the way it feels in their mouth. And I know my daughter would chew carrots and they would all come out. She'd chew them for a minute, but she was not going to swallow them. And that was repeated over and over and over again. And but she would always take them. She also would just pick up sticks of butter and eat them, you know. And I just let her. Um, and then she never did take a bottle at all. She refused, so she nursed till like two and three quarters years old. Um I mean, she ate some food and she ate food too, but um, she was a nurser for a while and just uh and then after so okay, then she starts developing and talking, and we realize she has a small lisp. You know, so I'm like, oh, okay, this is all like when you start to like think about it, like it's all making sense. Her her latch was difficult because of her the structure of her mouth. And then she had serious sensory issues. Man, that child wasn't wearing underwear with pants. She might wear underwear playing, but she was not gonna wear two sets of seams around her waist. She was not going to wear shin guards and socks, like it had to all be built in. There, if there were too many, you know, and so it makes sense that there are so many more reasons why there are food, there's food pickiness than we give, you know, than we understand.

SPEAKER_01: 55:13

Yeah, like even when you think about your daughter, like if she doesn't, well, she was having difficulty latching, that makes me wonder, like, yeah, what's her jaw structure like? And does she have a tongue tie? And often like that, if that's the history, and then they are are picky what they're eating down the track, that's something I would really be thinking about and wanting wanting to check for. And have um, if that was a client, like I would have them go to a myofunctional therapist and get or a dentist who um is aware of tongue ties to get assessed. Because if your tongue doesn't rest on the roof of your mouth and it only sits in one spot, when food touches that spot and you're like, whoa, this is too much. I want to get this out of my mouth. Right. Or like you can't chew properly or swallow properly. So food becomes really scary because your jaw structure is not and your tongue position isn't allowing you to do that properly. So, like, there can be a lot of fear that can be caused by that. So there are so many different like things that you want to look at when you're addressing picky eating.

SPEAKER_00: 56:15

So, and so that would uh that was gonna be a next question. You refer out for that. It's something that you're talking about, but you are not necessary, or are you helping to helping them create the roadmap to less picky eating?

SPEAKER_01: 56:32

There's a lot that like I can do with people, but I absolutely refer out. So like I don't do any body work. So if I if if I think that like that nervous system and the fascial work is really important for them, like I I have people that I refer to absolutely. I mean, depending on where I work with people online. So if they're local, um, I know who to refer them to, and um otherwise we can help find them. And then yeah, if it's something with their oral structure and tongue tie, I can do a few things where I'm like getting a sense of what it looks like and what they can do, and from that, and from their history, like referring them to somebody who can address that and do that myofunctional work with them, or if it is a tongue tie, like prepare them for a tongue tie, um like cutting the tongue tie if that is necessary. So, yeah, absolutely refer out for certain aspects of it. It just depends on like what it is. But I think you know, I help address what the root cause is and some of those things we can work through. Like if it is primitive reflexes, I have training in that I can work through that. But some people, um, if it is more severe, like I might even refer out for that depending on the situation. But I and then, but there's a lot that we can work through as well together. So it just depends case by case.

SPEAKER_00: 57:50

So I gotta ask, did the picky eating uh stem from your own personal experience with picky eaters, or did it uh come about and and you know, the birth of the picky eaters guide because of all the moms that also came to you with this like struggle?

SPEAKER_01: 58:07

Yeah, I think like I've always been really like focused on health holistically and like right from the get-go, like how can I get my kids to have like the healthiest microbiome and be exposed to great food? So it's like could stem from that. And my first child, like I had so much control over what he could eat because he wasn't exposed to other like older kids and their food. So he's just like an amazing eater, like the best palate ever, and will sit down and eat like anything that we serve, and really like loves vegetables and things. And then my second, he was a bit more challenging with that. And so it stems from my own experience with him, but a lot from like friends and clients that I've worked with that that they are struggling with, and also from that like holistic lens that I that I see things, because there's so many people who work in the picky eating space, and I feel like they're only addressing like one or two aspects of it. I'm like, no, we have to look at this more holistically. So it just really interested me because I think if we can address picky eating, we're helping kids not just eat better, but we're helping them move better and regulate their emotions better. Like if it is a primitive reflex thing, if we address that, that changes everything in their life. So I really like that aspect of it too, that it's you can help a family so much by just addressing this one thing. It can help in across so many aspects.

SPEAKER_00: 59:33

Yeah, well, and that was the thing with handle, the handle uh um approach is that you know, you have to bring in the nutrition piece, you have to bring in the movement piece, you have to bring in um, you know, and then you're using their mode, you know, these little, I'm telling like like one is just tapping on the trigeminal nerve, you know, or um one of the exercises is drinking through a crazy straw to help um strengthen these little eye muscles. Uh, and specifically you put the straw in between the lips, not behind the teeth, because right here is the only part of the mouth that can emulate the intensity of the suck you need to strengthen the sphincter muscles of the eyes. So, you know what you're and so that right will help with their reading or being able to track across a page or converge on a point. And the nipple of the mother's breast touches right at the roof of the palate of the mouth, right there at the midline of their brain to integrate integrate left and right hemispheres of the brain. Like it's just so incredibly fascinating. And you can still do this without having the child at six go back to the mother's breast through using a crazy straw or some of these like simple moves that help to, and then yeah, that's where I learned that they there was like a like a two-hour block where a woman who was doing um primitive integrative reflexes came in to kind of talk about that piece. Um, so it's just it's just amazing when you start to, and you know, some of these are things that the movements they didn't get, right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:18

Like I think a lot of the time that's what it is. Like there's this term, what is it, like container babies? Like a kid kids just aren't able to move as much. So these reflexes get held and they don't integrate, and then the further movements don't happen. Like it didn't the CDC even take out crawling as like a milestone. Like crawling is so important for the brain because you're doing that that cross body movement. So, like you're talking about with like that midline. We need our body, like our right and left to communicate. And some kids, like or some adults even like can't really cross that midline, yeah. And that's so important for eating, for everything. Like, eating is just one aspect, emotional regulation, normal, smooth movement, like your brain to process information.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:05

So it's yeah, and just like and just learning once you get in that space of learning. I remember like once I'd gone through the handle program, which I I went through it, I didn't really stick with it, but uh, the information is still, you know, there in my head. But like you might even start to notice if you were a teacher in a classroom, oh, this child's paper and handwriting is all over to this side, right? Because they can't bring it over. Like you'll start to see things when you look through a different lens and like, oh, these are just behaviors that are communicating with me or the a teacher or a mom on the way this child is taking in information and in order to process it. Like my daughter is um, she did not crawl and she did a scoot. So she did a cross pattern with her hands, but she was scooting her butt. She never was on her hands and knees. And uh she has um, you know, I think it was like fifth grade. Uh we did a psyched evaluation and um she uh slow, I think it's slow working memory, I I forget which, but we also found she's um cross-dominant. So she's right-handed and left-eyed. So there's already an extra piece where the information's coming in is gonna cross the corpus close and then go back. So it is gonna take her longer to take in information, right? It is more challenging for her to read and for her to grasp the math concepts. So um I think that's great work. And yes, when you do that and then you have the nutrients to back it up, it's more likely to be held and sustained, you know. And then a big one that they talked about was that thickening of the milelin sheath with the central fatty acids for for faster firing.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:58

Yeah, it nutrition and what we eat is such and what we absorb, like that that gut health piece is so important for for all of it. Excuse me, for our brain health, for um our palate, for you know, training those microbiomes. Yeah, all of it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:15

Yeah, well, I know that um we have just a short amount of time. Um, I could probably talk to you forever. There might be a gal. I haven't looked her up in a while again. Uh, her name is Janet Oliver. She's in Minnesota. Um, and you I forget, uh I'll try to send you her information, but she came in too during that same workshop and spoke to us. She said she could essentially like you get a child to third grade where they go from reading to learning to read to reading to learn. And that's when you start to see a lot of the um learning challenges and obstacles. She said very often she could almost predict their birth scenario based on the challenges she was seeing that they presented with when it came to, you know, learning and academics in school. So it's pretty fascinating stuff. She was a neat lady.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:11

Um, birth really plays into it, right? Because some of those reflexes we use to go down the b the vaginal canal. And if that if force ups are used or cesarean, you are more likely to have reflexes that uh are not integrated. And I mean, there can be other things that can happen that can impact learning, but absolutely like that is that's definitely a piece of it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:35

And then you're missing the vaginal, you know, the benefits of of of the vaginal microbiome. Like yeah, it's crazy. It's so wild, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:43

Um, nature had us like working, like you know, in an ideal situation. It had it all worked out, right?

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:49

But yeah, and yes, that's not the reality now.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:52

We have to often go back and fix things, but we can like even if you're an adult and you have like reflexes that are not integrated or your gut isn't great. It's like you can still do so much now. It's not that like it's too late. That's a really nice part. Like, there's so much we can change. It's easier to make those changes earlier on, but there's so much we can still do to like support our health and our kids' health, no matter what age.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:15

Yeah, absolutely. We're so much we have so much more um power than we think. And yeah, that can be done um yeah, anytime. I think there's a lot of things that can be reversed um and shifted. Uh, you know, of course, you hear about like spontaneous remissions and crazy healings and that I believe, you know, but so much of that is really understanding that we, you know, have you know the um power to kind of shift if you really want to. So it's never too late. Um, so where can people find you? I know that you um were you work with people online? Yeah, okay, all online?

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:56

Yeah, at this moment, yes, it's all online.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:59

So that's cool. I mean, I like the in-person, but I love the fact that you know, uh I think COVID birthed and a new generation of a lot of individuals who are really helping people online.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:10

Yeah, I find it is helpful. Like I remember being a mom and going to like see different like therapists and different like um support people and just like trying to like take my stroller up a huge sling of stairs because I had my kid with me, or like, you know, needing to breastfeed during it or stand up and rocking them. So I find it really with my population, especially those early years um of motherhood, like it is easy that they can just be like their kid is with them, or it's nap time and they can just like pick up the call. But in person is also amazing, and one day I I will definitely go back to doing some in person. But right now I think, yeah, for my clients, online is just like what fits their life. Um, but yeah, where you can find me, my uh my website is Dr. Hilary Clare. Uh so it's like D R Hillary with one L. um dot com and then that's the same on I'm Dr. Hillary Clare on Facebook and Instagram. So those would be the main places. My podcast is wild and well. So you can find that like wherever you listen to podcasts. Wherever you're listening to this one.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:20

And then where can they find your books? Through your website, Amazon?

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:24

Yeah, both of those places. There's a few bookstores that it's in. There's some other like um online book distributors that you can find it at. But yeah, Amazon or my website are probably the easiest places. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:35

Okay. Okay, great. Well thank you so much, Hilary. I so appreciate your time. It's been great. And um if my audience out there has questions please be sure to um reach out to Dr. Hilary Clare or find her on the social media sites, all this and her website, the social um it will all be in in the show notes below. I'm so grateful to have got to spend this time with you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:01

Yeah thank you so much. And yeah if anybody does have questions like I I love answering them and um yeah anything about anything we talked about let me know.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:09

Okay, great. Thanks so much. Have a fabulous day