More Sex Isn't the Answer & Energy, Intention & Presence Are! featuring Dan Purcell of Get Your Marriage On

In this episode, Dan Purcell of Get Your Marriage On, and I dive into one of the most intimate -- and often most misunderstood -- areas of marriage and relationships: sex. We explore why communicating about sex with your spouse can feel so vulnerable, awkward, or even unsafe, and how silence in this area often creates more distance than protection. 

We unpack why sex is so difficult to talk about, especially for couples shaped by shame, religious messaging, people-pleasing, or unspoken expectations.  Many couples aren't actually struggling with desire -- they're struggling with feeling seen, wanted, relaxed and emotionally connected. 

We also explore how to overcome common sexual obstacles, including mismatched libidos, feeling disconnected from your body, past wounds, communication breakdowns, and the "nice guy/ good girl" patterns that quietly kill polarity and passion.  We talk about about intimacy deepens when both partners feel free to express their desires, boundaries, and fantasies without fear of rejection or judgment. 

And yes we bring the heat ! We share our spiciest, most practical tips for cultivating a more fulfilling sex life -- ideas that go beyond technique and focus on energy, intention, playfulness, and emotional attunement. 

If you've ever felt stuck in this arena, this is an episode you won't want to miss! 

Connect with Dan!  Website: Get Your Marriage On!

PURCHASE BOOK NOW!

Get Patched! 

Start Breathing & Find Your Flow! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 1:20

Welcome back to today's episode of Unapologetic Living. I am super excited. Well, first of all, there are so many bots that um come through my email. They're like, we want somebody on on we want we have somebody who wants to be on your show and then I know. And so I have started responding differently. If you're serious, please text. And and I've had a handful recently, but a lot of times it's just goes nowhere. So I'm really excited that you reached out. I'm so grateful then and um and for that. And I'm grateful that we get to share this time together. Uh I want to welcome Dan Purcell. I love your name, Get Your Marriage On. I think it's so important and I just think that's fantastic. And um I have been listening to your podcast, Get Your Marriage On podcast, but you're welcome to get your marriage on, which is just so incredibly clever. Uh and um I'm really grateful that uh I have a male perspective because you are a sex uh no marriage and intimacy coach, which that can include sex.

SPEAKER_02: 2:28

Yes, yep, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 2:30

Um, and so I want to welcome you, Dan. Thank you so much for joining me.

SPEAKER_01: 2:34

Thanks, Elizabeth. This is so fun. And I love that we're gonna be unapologetic and just be raw. This is an unedited conversation we're gonna have, and hopefully those listening to this will walk away with, you know, feeling a little more edified, a little more information, a little more, I don't know, hope and joy in their in their most intimate relationship.

SPEAKER_00: 2:55

So I know um I I I know that for me um it's very important to have a thriving sex life fulfilling.

SPEAKER_02: 3:08

Yes, you know, for a lifetime.

SPEAKER_00: 3:09

And I believe it can be for a lifetime.

SPEAKER_03: 3:13

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 3:13

Like all ages and stages. I mean, my grandparents right there on my grandmother's death. Well, we were passionate till the end. I'm like, awesome. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know what that means, but I don't need to know all the details. But you know, that was good to hear. Um, but I'm 47. I don't know how old you are.

SPEAKER_01: 3:33

I'm 44.

SPEAKER_00: 3:34

Okay, so I'm 47, and a lot of uh the people that I'm friends with are around my age. A lot of some several are older, some of my closer friends. Um, and what I hear, and I have a lot of clients, and and you know, through this holistic lens of health and wellness that I kind of coach from I think this is an important part. Sexual intimacy is also a part of our wellness.

SPEAKER_01: 4:04

Yes, it's so core to who we are.

SPEAKER_00: 4:06

I think that uh, but what I hear more often than not is that people are having less sex, some not having no sex.

SPEAKER_01: 4:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 4:20

Uh, and for a myriad of reasons.

SPEAKER_01: 4:24

Right, yes. Yeah, yeah. And just looking at generations like the silent generation had a lot of sex than the baby boomers, that generations had less than the previous generation. Generation X, with all their like free love and everything, actually have less frequency than the baby boomers, and so on and so on. And now the millennials, and now the next generation coming up is even less than that previous generation. So it is like uh a phenomenon that we're seeing, as if you just count frequency at least. There's we're having less frequent sexual experiences for for people.

SPEAKER_00: 5:07

Yeah, that's uh I was just watching uh sex with Emily, she popped on live on Instagram and she was talking about just that, how we are having less sex than ever before.

SPEAKER_02: 5:18

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 5:20

And I find that fascinating. Um, and I know, and that some of those dopamine hits are coming from just scrolling.

SPEAKER_01: 5:27

Could be. I I don't know if there's just one cause, but whatever it is, uh you don't have to follow the trend. You can have a thriving sexual relationship as you are, and you may not compare yourself to your neighbor or someone, you know, someone like that, but at least compare yourself to yourself. Let's make this year our best sexual year ever. And it's not just frequency alone. There's so many other things that make for a great sexual relationship than just how often.

SPEAKER_00: 6:01

Yeah, I was just listening to your podcast. Um, oh my goodness, which one was it? It was it's great. Um let me just tell you, it was um, and I'm about 40 minutes through. Uh not the best. More sex didn't fix intimacy, but this did instead.

SPEAKER_01: 6:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 6:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 6:23

And uh I with Robert and Letitia, it's their story.

SPEAKER_00: 6:27

And I um and I definitely uh I I you know, when I was listening to them share their story, I thought of Esther Perel and something she said the other day. A lot of times people have they they claim they have low libido when really it's they just aren't desiring the sex they're about to have.

SPEAKER_01: 6:46

Yes, right, right, exactly.

unknown: 6:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 6:50

So what brought you here though?

SPEAKER_01: 6:52

Like great great question. So I um I was not always a sex and intimacy uh coach or therapist. I um was quite the opposite, actually. Um I come from a wonderful family and uh with a great conservative background, and like most people that come from a conservative family, they don't talk about sex that much. I mean, we're taught like you know the basics of reproduction and also the the do not do, right? Like the thou shalt not conversations, but the actual like how to build a thriving sexual relationship, like that part was missing. But I didn't know it was missing until 13 years into my marriage. So uh my wife and I have had a good marriage, we're really good friends, we like each other a lot, we get along really well, communicate well, go on dates off and that kind of stuff. Um but I didn't know it was missing because I one day I had a conversation with a friend, and in this conversation, my friend opened up to me about his sex life with his wife. And just to preface this, this isn't the kind of conversations I typically have. And it wasn't like bro locker room type talk, it wasn't that. It was more like he's trying to get my attention and say, Dan, once my wife and I really started to focus on our sexual relationship, everything in my life got better. Like my wife and I are communicating better, we're, you know, our health is improving, we're parenting together better, even my like job is improving. Like all these things in life get better because our sex life is better. And in all that, he shared a little bit about the struggles he and his wife had had that they've overcome. And I also come came to know that they have a very adventurous sex life. And I I was blushing the whole time, I was uncomfortable. Like, I didn't know good people did things like that. Like, this is a little outside of my comfort zone. And and uh anyway, it it was it wasn't all to brag, but it just gave me a picture of what a thriving sexual relationship with lovers looks like many years into a marriage. And uh he had it was like that missing piece, like, oh, sex isn't just like making babies and like something you do to like to have a release once in a while, but you can actually build something deeply meaningful with it that like puts a smile on your face, a pep in your step, and it makes everything in life a little bit sweeter. But I had a hard time reconciling that with my then knowledge of like, wait, isn't sex kind of bad? Like, or isn't it bad to kind of like sex? Because I my the idea of exploring sexuality reminded me of like Las Vegas billboards. It's like it's the side of things that's kind of unsavory, used to kind of draw you in, but shallow. I so I've always kind of stayed away from those things. But now here I have a friend who's like really experienced something of depth. So it kind of put me in a tailspin. Like, what's right? What I everything I knew was isn't like everything I thought, everything I know is wrong, kind of a kind of a crisis. And I uh my wife and I talked to my wife about it that night, and we had a five-hour conversation that night. Probably the most in-depth, uh intimate conversation we've had on that topic, our entire marriage to that point. And a lot of good things emerged from our conversation that night and everything after. And fast forward a few months, we're communicating better, we're raising our kids better together, like the sky is bluer, the grass is greener, and everything in life is like so much better because our sex life improved tremendously as we started investing in our sex life. So I I became really converted to that idea that really good sex helps uh a couple thrive, it helps you thrive, it just makes everything better.

SPEAKER_00: 10:58

Yeah, I I love that. And I love um that you shared that story with us. And I was raised Methodist, so I grew up in a Methodist church. We went every Wednesday night, Sunday morning, Sunday night. I was in the handbells in the choir, like I did it all.

SPEAKER_02: 11:14

Great, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 11:15

And you know, I in in our church, I don't recall a lot of discussion around like the thou shalt not. I remember that being, and where I know as a friend of mine who was raised Baptist, it was very thou shalt not until you're married. It just, and if they were talking about it, I didn't hear it. I just really don't recall that message being um you know ingrained in our psyche. I know what our parents had told us. Um I think, and probably because they did not wait until marriage, uh-huh, find someone you love.

unknown: 11:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 11:57

That was kind of the message, right? You know, ideally until you're you're waiting until you're married.

SPEAKER_03: 12:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 12:03

Um at 47, I can way more than as a youth see the benefit in waiting and finding that one.

SPEAKER_03: 12:14

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 12:15

And then growing and evolving with the same one over the years, because as you see, right? You're probably having the best sex of your life, or it continues to get better, and that's the goal. But when you're like here, like you just can't get there. I'm just, you know, like I don't think it's over too quick. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 12:37

Right. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 12:38

Um, and so uh, and I know that we recently just finished uh reading Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill.

SPEAKER_01: 12:47

Uh-huh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 12:48

Have you read that?

SPEAKER_01: 12:49

Yes, I have. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 12:50

Yeah, and in the back there, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 12:52

It's got that chapter on sexual transmutation. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 12:55

And how important that is, and how um uh, you know, again, being able to control that lust as well, right? And have that energy. But yeah, harness that energy. Um, and so I think that it is an energetic force that is very powerful and can be used for so much more than just the act.

SPEAKER_02: 13:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 13:20

Um and I don't necessarily think freak you know frequency is the answer. I think it's the quality.

SPEAKER_01: 13:32

Yes. Yeah, because you can have frequency, and like you said, that Esther Perel quote, like it's the kind of sex you actually really don't want. It doesn't fulfill you. You're not we want transcendent sexual experiences, ones that change us, ones that move us. Or you walk out of the bedroom a different person than how you uh came into the bedroom. So uh that's what we I think a lot of us really crave and desire. And uh frequency alone doesn't guarantee that. In fact, sometimes if all you do is push for more frequency, in the short term, it might feel like things are progressing. But if the underlying quality hasn't improved enough, then you're not going to uh really have those transcendent experiences because it's it requires more soul, it requires more of your whole person, it requires more of a self to be present and to allow yourself to be intimate with another soul. That that's a different dimension than just you know banging five times a week.

SPEAKER_00: 14:39

Absolutely. So I know that before we hopped on, you were talking about something that you had on your mind today, and I'd love for you to share with the audience that backstory you shared with me.

SPEAKER_01: 14:52

Yeah, something I've been pondering a little bit uh today a lot is the it's really about the soul of the sex of sex. It and it's to me, it's um this is inspired by a few conversations I've had lately. One last night with a couple where um she struggles to have to climax. And she's a achiever type person, you can tell. She's uh very good at everything she does, and in life, she's used to working hard and then getting what she wants. And it serves her really well. So she's working really, really, really hard to have an orgasm. Married many years, still is really elusive for her, very frustrating. She can get close, but not quite over the edge. She knows it's almost there. And as you can imagine, it it feels really um sometimes feels really broken, feels uh uh like something's wrong with her. And um how can everyone else do it? How can my husband make it so easy, it's easy to get resentful, right? Um and in this pursuit, sexual experiences are now for her a measuring stick of of uh who she is. And if she had that climax, then all of a sudden her value and her own personal worth in her mind would jump. But uh thinking along those lines and began and because it doesn't happen, her value of herself diminishes. So sexual experiences become not something to look forward to, not something to be excited about because it's just fraught with meanings of um brokenness and inadequacy. I mean, if every time we did something and we felt horribly inadequate doing it, we'd probably not look forward to doing that again, right?

SPEAKER_03: 16:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 18:25

Exactly. So um we sometimes need to take a big step back and look at what are the meanings that are alive between the two of us when we have sex? What does sex what does what do we make it mean? What is this meaning alive between us? And there's many layers, I think, that we can get through as we really dissect the meanings. And that's what I would call the soul of sex. What is the soul of sex? What's the what's what's really alive between the two of us when we are close together with our bodies tucked inside each other? What is it that um we are experiencing of each other and in each other? I think uh learning how to really look at that and really uh dial that in and understand that, I think says a lot more about it about our sexual encounters. And also when you focus on what do we want to create between us, what meanings do we want to be alive between us? We kind of take a broader scope of what sex can mean for us and do for us.

SPEAKER_00: 19:30

So when you work with a couple, you know, and then this particular case, how do you go in to help them address this issue to find that soul?

SPEAKER_01: 19:42

Yeah, well, um she in this case will need to learn how to let go of that thought of I'm inadequate. I'm inadequate, I'm inadequate. Because uh it's like um it's like gripping a tennis ball and you grip it tight, it kind of pushes back on you, right? But when you let it go, uh it might drop, it might bounce back a little bit, but it doesn't bounce back as high. Like she needs to learn how to like loosen that grip on that and maybe replace it with I am worthy. Regardless of the outcome of this sexual encounter, I know deep down that this is something I want to do, I want to be here. Like there's agency in this. Um there's a lot of choice. I I choose to be here because I I like this or I like this aspect of it. That I think would be step one for her to hold on to that. And then um I also believe there's maybe some other secondary or third factors going on. People that are high achievers who are used to getting what they want, they're they're also good at control. They're good at controlling themselves. Self-control is good, but good sex requires letting go of control. That is so scary for a lot of people. So she'll have to learn how to let go a little bit. Um, also, there's just the basics, just learn about her body, anatomy, um, what things she finds arousing, and more of that will help. Um, I also teach a dual control model that's like the brake and an accelerator, like in a car.

SPEAKER_00: 21:17

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01: 21:18

All of us have sexual brakes and all of us have sexual accelerators. It's just that some people have a more sensitive brake and some people have a more sensitive accelerator. Uh so it's be really understanding what her brakes are and can we address those breaks so they're less of a break for her? And what are her accelerators? Can we identify what those are and do more of that?

SPEAKER_00: 21:40

All right. So, can you give me an example? When you say break, would that be something that uh becomes a turnoff or an arousing?

SPEAKER_01: 21:48

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 21:49

Just like a hard no, no, we're not doing that. Uh no, you can't spit on me or whatever. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 21:56

Yep. Um, one break for me personally is stress. For me, when I'm stressed, I'm not as interested in sex. That's I think the majority of people. However, there are some people where sex stress is actually an accelerator. When they fill out stress, their libido goes up. So I'm not saying categorically for all people, stress is a break, but that's like an example.

SPEAKER_00: 22:24

Yeah. Go on, go on. I know.

SPEAKER_01: 22:26

There's also scenarios where um something might be an accelerator for me, but a total break for my wife. Um let's pretend for a minute no one is home. Like our kids are gone, whatever. And it's like, let's go make love out on the couch. Like that idea is an accelerator for me because it's like new, it's novel, it's different. But for my wife, it would be a break for her. The whole time she's there, she's like, What if I don't know, a neighbor walks by uh or someone rings the doorbell, or a kid unexpectedly comes home early? Like that has so much is so alive in her that she can't like relax and enjoy the experience, right? Right. So those are breaks and accelerators. For some people, it's like that's a big turn on. For others, that's a that's it can be a turnoff.

SPEAKER_00: 23:13

Yeah, and for me, I uh just one that pops up is the dog.

SPEAKER_01: 23:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 23:18

Right. I mean, that's a simple one, but you know, the dog, our dog is this big. What if the dog needs to get out or yeah, but the dog sit on the bed and just you know, observe. I'm like, no, this is not working. Right. So, but you know, but somebody else, it might totally work.

SPEAKER_01: 23:35

Yeah, yeah, they could totally ignore it and just be just fine. As we're doing doggy style.

SPEAKER_00: 23:40

Right. But you know, so like for that, like I know, like again, learning to navigate some of those things that you don't even, you aren't necessarily even aware of until you take some time to reflect on it. Like, what is in my head right now that I can't let go, or what's going on in this room, or what happened earlier in the day that I'm bringing with me? Um, are, you know, is there too much noise? The kids are asleep.

SPEAKER_02: 24:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 24:12

I mean, mine are grown, but I have a 20-year-old here.

SPEAKER_01: 24:15

Uh-huh. And so sometimes that makes it harder, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 24:18

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 24:19

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 24:19

Yeah. I mean, because it's like you can like figure out ways to be sneaky. I feel like it's a little easier to be sneaky when they're little.

SPEAKER_01: 24:27

Yes, no, totally. Uh-huh. They're a little more predictable.

SPEAKER_00: 24:30

Yeah. Um, and so I do think it's important for individuals to really go within to pinpoint uh what their breaks are. Yes. And and like you said, I like the the accelerator um analogy.

SPEAKER_01: 24:45

Yeah. Yeah. Uh some great accelerators. I think they fall into one of three categories. There's the physical, the relational, and the um, we'll call it the psychological. Like a physical accelerator could be just the way I'm touched, the way I'm kissed, the way I'm nuzzled, the way I'm hugged, or something a little more like uh uh explicitly sexual, like the way my genitals are stroked, or you know, that that spot that just touched us the right way in the right rhythm really gets me going. A lot of people find that like can relate to that. Yeah. I I love that. Then there's like the relational where it's the romance, it's the uh it's the flowers, it's the music, it's the lighting, it's the way we talked, the way we emotionally connected deeply earlier. It's the I feel like you really care about me, you're invested in me. I feel like you really listen. Or it's also like people that had a bad argument and but they kind of made up for it, and then they have the best sex ever after. It's because it's like that relationship has fueled their eroticism uh for them. They kind of relate in that way. I'm not saying go have lots of arguments as the it's just it's just tell showing where you find erotic inspiration.

SPEAKER_00: 26:07

Yeah, and I know sometimes arguments can bring you to that place where you sit down at that table to have those more vulnerable conversations, which can take you right there because you're like, oh my gosh, finally I'm being heard and listened to, and vice versa. And that absolutely brings you uh closer together.

SPEAKER_01: 26:27

Yes, because you're more honest. And honesty, even if it's not always what your partner wants to hear, is ultimately I think really sexy because it's intimate. It takes a lot of courage to really expose yourself and be like you know, be straight with your spouse. Like this is what I see, this is what I'm experiencing with you.

SPEAKER_00: 26:49

So I know that um um I um have I I have like so the okay. The first book I one of the first books I read, I guess, was Pussy a Reclamation by Gina Regina Thomas Hour, who really and she broke down um uh the anatomy of the vagina. I don't even like that word because it doesn't really encompass the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01: 29:28

That's the vulva is the technical term for the vulva.

SPEAKER_00: 29:32

And um, and so um uh that was a great book on you know getting to know the parts and that you know, we as women, there's over 8,000 nerve endings in the clitoris alum.

SPEAKER_02: 29:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 29:46

Um, so that was a book I read in 2017. Fast forward, I found a book through another friend um called Sex for One.

SPEAKER_01: 29:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 29:58

Betty Dodson. That's not Betty.

SPEAKER_01: 30:00

Betty Dodson. Is it she may have written a book? She's written many books. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 30:05

Okay. Did she write uh okay? Well, there's another Betty. I just want to make sure I'm getting the right, but that's the one. And I thought that was a great book because she really talked about um, you know, getting in touch with your own sexuality and knowing what turns you on. Yes. Uh and um the benefits of solo sex, because there may also be at times when you are married and even partnered that you don't get to experience that. So that you can still have this thriving, fulfilling experience with yourself during those times. Somebody might get sick, you know, for whatever reason, right? There's yes, and so I thought that was a really great book. So I found that book. I don't even remember when that was. And then, you know, um, there was another book I found called Slow Sex. I don't know who wrote it.

SPEAKER_01: 30:53

There's there's two popular ones. There's Nicole Daydon, who wrote it. It has um she talks about orgasmic meditation.

SPEAKER_00: 31:01

I don't remember.

SPEAKER_01: 31:02

The other one is Diana Richardson talking about slow sex as in um like a tantric approach to sex.

SPEAKER_00: 31:09

Yeah, it might have been that. I really don't remember. I've got the book right out there on um my uh dresser, and then there was another one, sex and happiness. And I mean, I do believe, like, you know, you're getting married, you're picking this partner. I mean, one of the reasons that separates them from your friends is that you're having this very intimate, pleasurable experience.

SPEAKER_02: 31:30

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00: 31:31

Um and you know, I have I have clients uh who are in completely sexless marriages. Um I don't know. Uh uh any thoughts on that? Like I don't know, I don't I cannot fully believe that there is fulfillment in that.

SPEAKER_01: 31:54

Yeah, uh it'd be hard for you to find I if you if you were in a sexless relationship, I think you'd be out because it's so important to you.

SPEAKER_00: 32:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 32:05

And that makes sense. And for a lot of people in a sexless marriage is very distressing.

SPEAKER_00: 32:10

I I bet. And I and I wonder if there's you know underlying stuff that's really keeping them from being able to go there or reconnect in that way. Because I do ultimately believe that most of us need this. I I actually I do believe that.

SPEAKER_01: 32:32

I yeah, I think so too. Um there's a lot of talk in my circles about how you never say sex is a need. Because um if sex were an if if we took it too far and too literally that sex is a need, then um like can you imagine in a like a rape scenario, they can say, oh well, he needed it.

SPEAKER_00: 32:58

Right, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01: 32:59

Right?

SPEAKER_00: 32:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 33:00

It might will justify irresponsibility.

SPEAKER_00: 33:02

Of course.

SPEAKER_01: 33:03

Um so people hate saying like sex is a need. Also, biologists would say a person can have a perfectly fulfilling life with and not have sex with someone else and still be healthy and you know, all those things. So it's not like a need like food is or sleep or you know, oxygen. But if it's I I think sex is maybe not needed for survival, but it's needed for thrival.

SPEAKER_00: 33:33

Thrival, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 33:35

It's about thriving. Um, there is something about the the sexual dimension of us that is so core to who we are, it's like right up there next to the spirituality and sexuality are I think are really closely linked. That when cultivated and nourished, it expands us, it opens us up and it pushes us to grow and develop. There's a story I heard about a mom. She had a like a middle school kid, and uh he had him in piano lessons, and getting him to practice the piano was like always like trying to pull teeth, right? You can priorate.

SPEAKER_00: 34:17

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 34:18

And then um uh one day she picked him up from school and he was kind of happy. It's like, what happened today? Oh, uh a new girl moved in to school and they were talking at the lunch table, and she found out that he plays the piano. And she's like, Do you know that Bruno Mars song? It's like, can you play it? It's like, yeah, I can play it. Like a middle schooler boy would say, like, will you play it for me sometimes? Guess what? He got home from school that day, he practiced that song for hours. Yeah, that's right. And that's what we're talking about. Like, it's that sexual dimension in a way, it invites us to thrive. Like it's we can we can harness that to really motivate us to grow and expand who we are.

SPEAKER_00: 35:02

Yeah, he um I what is it, think and grow rich? Like that's one of the most driving forces that we have, right? So if we can channel that.

SPEAKER_02: 35:10

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 35:12

Right. Um, and uh I do think um, you know, I strongly believe in in a in a I mean I believe in a a man and a woman and more conservative traditional marriage. Um I'm open to whatever, except for that, you know, in my in my reality, in my world, that's what I believe is is um to are the two who should come together.

SPEAKER_02: 35:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 35:41

Um and you know, and that driving force where the female is kind of behind, the male is taking the lead, and the female is kind of like fueling the masculine to go after that that dream, that purpose, that mission. Um and so, you know, and hearing that, right? She kind of fueled that for him to go out there and learn this Bruno Mars. Um and I think that's cute, right? But it makes sense, right? That's what happens a lot of times. It's that female that's the driving force to get him to like, okay, what's what what what am I? How can I show up? How can I show up?

SPEAKER_03: 36:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 36:24

Um and uh and I don't know about you. Uh have you read David Davis' work?

SPEAKER_01: 36:31

I've read um it's one of his books.

SPEAKER_00: 36:35

Um The Way of the Superior Man.

SPEAKER_01: 36:37

Yes, the way the way of the superior man.

SPEAKER_00: 36:39

I mean, I do think, you know, the the masculine energy really must know the direction he's going.

SPEAKER_01: 36:46

Yeah.

unknown: 36:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 36:48

To stand right now. We're gonna say erect in the world.

SPEAKER_01: 36:51

Yes. Uh-huh. That's a great fitting word for it. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 36:54

And and he will connect like a a masculine man who is having trouble in the uh bedroom arena, maybe with erectile dysfunction or low libido, with this lack of direction or mission or purpose.

SPEAKER_02: 37:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 37:15

Do you find that to be true? Do you think that that that is true?

SPEAKER_01: 37:20

Yeah, absolutely. I think uh I think it was David David's concept to illustrate that. He says, like, masculines like New York, yes, feminines like Hawaii.

SPEAKER_03: 37:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 37:31

They both have strengths, by the way. I'm not saying like want women to step in, or you know, the yin and the yang, yes, like to step fully into your feminine strength and into the masculine strength, right? Right. So there's another couple I've worked with where um sex is um really good sometimes, but not good most of the time. And they want to be more consistently good. And he had a mom that was kind of a demanding mom. And he grew just grew up being like the responsible one. Mom would like put a lot of her emotional burdens on her son, he would carry them for his mom. He was very highly tuned to like mom's emotional state, and he kind of took it upon him as the oldest son to you know do those things so that mom's okay, which is a strength, but also turned into a liability, which I'll explain in a second. So she marries him, and he is a nice guy. He is a great guy, very considerate of others, um, always willing to help anyone, give the shirt off his back, like just a very considerate and thoughtful man. Except in the bedroom, it drives her nuts. Like, uh she wants him to like, like they're kissing, and it's like he pauses, like, do you like that kissing? Do you want me to keep going? Do you want me to kiss another part? Like, are you like it's okay, it's okay, keep going. And then, like a little while like, do you want me to touch you over here now? Like, just don't ask, just do it. And you can tell, like, she's really frustrated, but he's trying to be quote unquote considerate. But what he doesn't realize in the bedroom is uh I had a hard time trying to describe it, but I in my mind it's like his center of gravity, if I'm using a martial arts term or whatever, right? Like where your center is, it's it's not within himself, it's very much around her. We want female-centric sex, so I gotta be careful like the language I use, but it's more hit uh he doesn't have a self in sex. His self is wrapped up in her. She is his center of gravity. And now for her, she's a tired mom, also works full-time, and all these things. The last thing she wants to do is play air traffic controller in the bedroom. She just wants someone to take him. Uh sorry, she just wants someone to take her. So uh every time he's like, How's this, how's that, it's just adding more pressure and frankly more break to her arousal. But she didn't have quite the words to articulate kind of what she's feeling. And I think this is what we're talking about. So the strong masculine is gonna step in. It's you're not gonna bulldoze, you're not gonna do something unkind or uh take. Right. But but you're a little more solid, because you're it's you're gonna bring your masculine strength to this encounter. And as I described that with the couple, and I think they got the concept, she's like swooning, like I I want that. That sounds hot. So I got them excited too.

SPEAKER_00: 43:52

Well, and that's that's the thing. That's what you hear, I think, from a lot of women is that we want that. And you had did you watch Outlander?

SPEAKER_01: 44:01

Uh I've read the book. Okay. I've read the first book.

SPEAKER_00: 44:05

I mean, if you watch that show, you like see that dynamic polarity of masculine and feminine, right?

SPEAKER_01: 44:11

Yes, and they're both in their strength. Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 44:13

And they're both in their strength.

SPEAKER_01: 44:14

Exactly. And I forgot her name, but yes.

SPEAKER_00: 44:17

Uh well, he calls her. Oh my god, I forget what he um Sassinak. That's not her name, but that's her nickname, I think. I think that's what he called her. Um and uh, but yes, you see that polarity very well. And it's it's like the yin and the yang. And and usually there is a masculine and a feminine polarity, you know, they they attract. And when both people are vying for the same position, or in a in or or or stepping into the polarity they really don't want to be in, they can lose that. And I think if more couples cultivated that polarity, because I think it gets I think it gets lost as as men and women, it it's there in the beginning.

SPEAKER_03: 45:05

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 45:05

And then people start having babies, ma'am goes to work, mama's taken care of, and she might be working too. I mean, like I was a working mom. I felt like I was driving the bus. I was worn out.

SPEAKER_02: 45:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 45:19

You know, like I and and it and I like in the last couple of years have read the book The Surrendered Wife.

SPEAKER_02: 45:27

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 45:28

Um, you know her, Laura Doyle?

SPEAKER_02: 45:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 45:31

And um, The Empowered Wife. And I first of all, I couldn't believe I read The Surrendered Wife just because of the title, but it's not what you think.

SPEAKER_03: 45:38

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00: 45:39

And then, but it's learning how to be a dormant.

SPEAKER_03: 45:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 45:42

Absolutely. It's about following and like letting him, you know, with like little decisions, let him decide the restaurant. You know what? I remember there'd be times I'm like, what do you want to go eat? What do you want to go eat? And I named 10 10 cuisines. None of them sounded good. Um my gosh, just pick, please, just pick.

SPEAKER_03: 46:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 46:03

I've made all these other decisions all day. I've taken the kids here and there, and blah, blah, blah, blah. I've worked. You know, please make a decision.

SPEAKER_01: 46:10

Just lead. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 46:11

Yes, just lead. And I do think that is um very much a Christian principle.

SPEAKER_01: 46:18

Yeah, I think so too.

SPEAKER_00: 46:20

Um, and that has, you know, unfortunately, with the rise of feminism, some of that has been lost.

SPEAKER_01: 46:26

Mm-hmm. I I think in a good thriving marriage, they're equal partners. It's not that one takes over the other or one's like. I know people I think they misinterpret the meaning when they say to be really submissive means like to create a hierarchy. Because what you don't want is a marriage where it's like it feels more like parental or maternalistic with the stuff. That's that's not sexy at all. Right. Um so you want to be shoulder to shoulder bearing life's burdens together. And that sometimes means I'm tired, you're picking the restaurant. That's like because sometimes if not picking the restaurant is not done out of strength, it's done out of weakness, out of fear of upsetting the other. As if the other person secretly has where they want to go, but they don't want to voice it, so you have to play a guessing game to tease it out. And that's exhausting, and that's probably not the reality. So it's being a little more real, like I'm tired. And it might be I struggle picking too. Well, I don't know where we're gonna go because we're stuck in the driveway until we pick a place to go. But let's be real here and let's be equals in this and figuring it out. I think that's a much healthier approach for marriages when they approach life as equals in that way.

SPEAKER_00: 47:49

So um you coach clients. I know y you also said many of them have been married for you know an extended period of time. Um, and uh It sounds like um I uh you know do you help them with the communication piece around sex because that can be so difficult?

SPEAKER_01: 48:16

Yes. In fact, I'm shocked how many people that I meet with, like in my sessions, one will turn to the end and go, I've never heard you say that before, or I never thought you felt that way. But now that they're there in the session, they're a little bit more willing to open up. And it's like you didn't have to hire me to be there. They could have had this conversation alone. Yeah, it's because it's hard to talk about.

SPEAKER_00: 48:41

Yeah, I know, and uh, this is something so I've so I like I took um a class uh well enrolled in two classes by a woman named Kimanami.

SPEAKER_01: 48:52

Okay, yes, I know of her. Uh-huh. She's got a great Instagram. Uh-huh. Yeah. Um, and very opinionated.

SPEAKER_00: 48:58

Very, very opinionated. Um and her information is very insightful though. So the first one was on um uh vaginal kung fu, VKF. And it's a great course because she really does talk about how you know you have to surrender, you have to be able to let go, you have to be able to relax. And a lot of times you need to find that on your own before you can bring it, really bring it in with a partner.

SPEAKER_01: 49:26

Yeah. Makes sense.

SPEAKER_00: 49:28

She also uh encourages the jade egg.

SPEAKER_01: 49:32

The jade egg, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 49:33

Uh-huh. Because so many women become numb over time for multiple reasons, whether it's emotional trauma or stress, tightening of that clenching of that area. Yeah, just like you who were talking about that tennis ball. But if you can relax, like sometimes we really are tight. And if we're holding that tension, it really can be held here in our pelvic floor. And then also, you know, if you've had six babies, right, things are different. And um, and that can change over time, like if there's been an epesiotomy or an unwanted cesarean, like all of these um are held within our connective tissue, that fascia, right? This trauma. Um, and so it's important to um go there, I think on your own, so that then, okay, this is oh, I found a spot.

SPEAKER_01: 50:23

Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 50:24

And then you go, oh, I found a spot.

SPEAKER_01: 50:28

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 50:28

Will you go here?

SPEAKER_01: 50:30

Will you go explore that spot a little more for me? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 50:33

And sometimes if you just hold that tension and that connective tissue can actually relax.

SPEAKER_01: 50:40

Uh-huh. And extend a bit and accommodate a little more.

SPEAKER_00: 50:43

Yeah. And then, you know, of course. So I I know that that was, and then another um really cool ex um not experiment, but well, it was not an experiment. What would be um an activity that she had us do um um was um look, you know, the soul gazing, the looking into each other's eyes, and just for I think it was 20 minutes. That's powerful because with nothing else, you're not gonna do anything else but look in each other's eyes. And then maybe during that time, you know, I think the very first exercise was like to take turns where we uh were looking at each other and saying the things that we loved about the individual because that can get forgotten in the day-to-day.

SPEAKER_01: 51:28

Yes, yes, the appreciation, right, all of that.

SPEAKER_00: 51:32

Um, and then another activity was clearing that glass. She said clearing the glass, right? You've got this glass of 25 years. If there's smudges on it from like unspoken things, that can also interfere with the inability to, you know, relax or have that orgasm and what have you. Um, and so I just found, you know, like these are things I don't think people are always thinking about when it comes to deepening this area of their life.

SPEAKER_01: 52:06

Yeah. Agreed. I think you're I think all of those things are really good. I like the I like all that what you just said and shared. Um and so people try that and experiment with that.

SPEAKER_00: 52:18

So, okay, when what other things do you bring? Now, do you work with couples? I know you said you were talking to a couple last night. Do you bring them together in groups or is it on is it virtual? Is it in person?

SPEAKER_01: 52:31

I have a few different programs. Um I do private, I have group settings that are men only and women only in small groups.

SPEAKER_03: 52:39

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01: 52:40

And then when they graduate from that, they're invited into like a couple where we invite just like six couples in a group or something like that. I also put on retreats and this is where they come and uh spend four days with me. We go really deep uh for a small group. And we're even doing a cruise this year, first time where we're gonna take our program and do it out at sea.

SPEAKER_00: 53:04

Okay, so now how many when you say a retreat, how many couples is that generally?

SPEAKER_01: 53:09

The one we're doing in April, we cap it at 20, and we've sold out. So we'll have to do that. Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00: 53:14

Okay, that's and and so that's more immersive.

SPEAKER_01: 53:18

Yes. Yep, very immersive. And uh we really work on fundamentals. This is like the one thing that I teach is this capacity uh to really step into your own strength. We've talked about that, we've danced around this idea quite a bit, but it just looks a little bit differently when you put it in a different context. One example is um let me think of a personal example. Um okay, this is a not sexual example, but it will relate, I promise. 2021 comes and the vaccine for COVID is now available. In my marriage, one of us is thinks it's the best idea in the world, let's go get vaccinated. The other's like, this is not proven, this is risky, they fast, they fast track this, we don't know what the repercussions of this is going to be five years, ten years down the road. Bad idea. All right, but I'm not saying one opinion's more valid than the other. But when there is a difference, how do you do as a couple? So uh one of us decided to go get vaccinated, and it felt like a betrayal to the other person. They were so angry and withheld and um shut down, cold shoulder, you know, all the things, right? That's very telling about how how couples how my marriage operated at that time. And it's because when you're married to someone for a while, uh it's natural to want to control the other person because their decisions impact you. So you want to make sure that the decision they're making are in line with what you want them to do. So when they don't do what you want, we tend to do like like in this case, withdrawing, because we know how painful that's gonna be. They'll learn their lesson next time, right? Or sometimes you become a bully, like, how dare you and get angry and use anger as a tool. Or sometimes we just accommodate and fold into their reality. And then all of a sudden it becomes not a marriage of two people, it's a marriage of like one person, because they fold it into the other person's reality, or one and a half, and it's not. Uh so I teach this concept and help them really understand um that oh about the COVID vaccine story. Fast forward a few months, there was an event that we both wanted to attend. That's uh we were invited to attend, it meant traveling. And uh a month before to happen, we got a notice saying, Oh, and you need to be vaccinated in order to come because we're gonna be a larger group of people in a small area, everyone must be vaccinated. And the person that was vaccinated in my marriage was like, see, it told you so, like we need to do this, right? And did the whole cold shoulder treatment back to the other, like it just went around for different reasons. So it was the way the immaturity showed up in the relationship because of the way you want to be. Now, in sex, um, this translates because it's hard to really make love to someone if you need that someone to also be a certain way in order for you to feel good about yourself. In fact, you can't ever really love someone if you uh need them to be a certain way or depend on them so that you feel better about yourself. It's not actually really loving, it's it's it's in a way it's like using another person. So I I break that down. Of course, this is over two or three days, and we help them see in their own marriage, but fundamentally learning how to step into your own and it's like a room for two concept. This is a marriage where there's plenty of room for two very different people. But there's room for you, and there's room for me. And it's like, what are our strengths and building on those strengths to create something better together rather than always kind of be opposed with each other? And actually identifying our conflicts and using our conflicts as stepping stones to invite more personal growth, more honesty, like what we talked about. That invites more freedom. And then that's when sex can get absolutely hot because you can be unapologetic about your desire. That's when you can actually be your true self with someone who's being their true self, and nothing can be hotter and more meaningful and transcendent than that. So that was probably longer explanation that you wanted, but that's fundamentally what I believe.

SPEAKER_00: 58:08

Yeah, but it's that full acceptance of the other as the individual and the soul and the personality that they are, right? Yeah, yeah. And that's exactly what we come. That's what we want, you know, being here is that.

SPEAKER_02: 58:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 58:20

And it it's, you know, it's awesome to have that with, you know, our spouse.

SPEAKER_02: 58:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 58:29

And when you feel that, yeah, you're you're going to feel safer.

unknown: 58:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 58:36

That sense of safety um can be cultivated and uh that room for expansion and uh a lack of inhibition so that you can really let go and and experience what you know God has has meant for us to experience.

SPEAKER_01: 58:52

Absolutely. Yes. Yep. Uh and I think um a lot of people use the metaphor of Christ in the church as how a marriage should be. And I I love that metaphor because it really is about investment. But you really can't invest in someone else if you're not your full self first too. It's like the second great commandment to love your neighbor as yourself. It's hard to love someone else if you don't love yourself yet. But the opposite's true too. The more you learn to love another person, the more through that you learn how to gain your own self-respect and love that too, love yourself too. So I think they they feed off of each other in a very positive way.

SPEAKER_00: 59:38

Yeah, that's beautiful. Well, I am so grateful for your time today.

SPEAKER_01: 59:42

Thanks. This has been a fun conversation.

SPEAKER_00: 59:44

Yeah, it has been. Um, I really enjoyed it, and I know um people can find some fantastic conversations um on uh your podcast, get your marriage on. I there was another one I was listening to.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:04

The black belt black belt sex tips round up 2025. Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:09

Yeah, that was really good. I think that's definitely worth a listen, but I haven't been able to dig back too deep because I just really learned of you last week, I think.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:19

So well, thank you. Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:22

So get your um, and then that's your website too, get your marriageon.com.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:26

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:27

And all of your different courses or uh retreat information class, the way people can work with you is is there.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:37

Well, before we conclude, Elizabeth, yeah, I want I wonder if our listeners want to hear what your black belt sex tip is. Oh god. A black belt I'm putting on the spot, and you can put me on the spot too if you want. Okay. It means like you've mastered the fundamentals and now you're ready for the next step.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:54

Oh gosh, I don't even know if I've mastered the fundamentals.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:59

People want to know what you think makes for great sex.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:02

Okay, well, you know, one of the things that I that um I've learned over the years is um the um the yoni and the lingam massage.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:14

And spending time, you know, just giving to your partner. Uh, we have a uh an hourglass timer, but it's not an hour, it's about 30 minutes. And then we also have a three-minute one. Um, and you know, giving that gift, but then also, and I think it's a really great um tool to learn how to receive because I think that can also be a problem for both individuals in a couple. It's like, I can just relax here and receive, and there's no expectation of me to perform back in this moment.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:54

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:56

So, and and I know for me, receiving was very difficult because I think as women, so often we feel like we have to perform and do for the other. And if the other doesn't have their needs met, then we have failed.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:10

Yeah, right. Also, receiving is a lot more exposing and vulnerable.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:14

Yeah. And just just just and noticing what comes up during that receiving, because as you do that, you know, I definitely it can help move you forward with oh, you know, with that level of intimacy. Um, so yeah, so that would be, you know, and then really giving that to your partner. Um, that, you know, again, both you're you may take turns, and maybe it's just once or twice, you know. I mean, it could be, you know, and then and and also with that, you are helping someone, you know, any tension that they may be storing there from past stuff can be released, like on that fascial level, that emotional, uh, you know, all that trauma is connected into our friendship. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:57

It also feels really good.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:58

Yeah, well, that too. You know, but if you get that, it doesn't have to feel like forever. You know, I like the hourglass timer. We're not looking at any phones.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:07

Uh-huh. Right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:08

Um, so that's my black belt tip.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:11

Oh, that's a great black belt tip. Love it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:14

What's yours?

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:16

Mine, uh, one I could share with you is go on a getaway, just the two of you, have lots of sex, but purposely don't orgasm.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:27

Oh, I think that's another really good one because we were too focused on the outcome instead of the journey. Yeah, I think that is um part of the problem because I can tell you too, when you get there too fast, you felt like you didn't even do it. Have you ever felt that? And you're like, oh, that wasn't it was that that like you know uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:48

Yeah.

unknown: 1:03:49

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:50

Uh-huh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:52

So I like that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:54

But have lots of sex. You're not, you're not avoiding it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:57

Just stop right like a hair right before you get to that moment.

unknown: 1:04:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:02

And then it just just keep that arousal building and building and building until you can't take it anymore.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:10

Well, you know, some of that can just be sensual touch, like massage. It doesn't even have to be. Right. Yeah. And I think people like, oh, I'm gonna spend a lot of time. Well, it doesn't have to be penetration or you know, intercourse, it can just be central massage. Get some body oil out and you know, again, I like it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:31

Yeah, that's good. Great.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:34

Okay, well, make sure uh you all check out um Dan's podcast and his website. Lots of great information, especially if you are um convinced like I am that I'm going to be having a thriving sex life in until you know whatever, 85 or 90. You know, actually, did you know? You know, most STDs are, I mean That's right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:59

I heard they're in nursing homes. Uh huh.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:01

That's crazy. So something's going on there.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:05

You know?

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:06

Yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:07

Um, all right. Well, thank you so much, Dan.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:09

Okay. Take care.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:11

Uh you too. Bye bye.